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Ep. 162 – Co-parenting

About half of all American children will experience their parents’ divorce. While divorce is often stressful for families, a great deal of the stress gets thrusted onto the children trying to adjust to their new life. One important factor linked with child outcomes after divorce is the quality of the divorced couple’s co-parenting relationship.

In this episode Doreen and Jeff discuss some of the do’s and don’ts of coparenting and how to your children’s best interest first.

Transcript

Jeff 00:03
Hello, everybody out there. Welcome to Episode 162 today we’re going to be talking about our experiences in co-parenting. So if you have children out there, this is an episode you surely do not want to miss. So if you’re ready, let’s get started.

Doreen 00:27
Are you ready to create a life that’s better than ever before? We are Doreen Yaffa and Jeff Wilson, and we are here to give you the strategies you need to create the life after divorce that you deserve and desire as partners, both in marriage and coaching, we use our expertise as well as our own personal experiences to help you make the next chapter of your life the best chapter.

Doreen 01:00
Okay, so how are you?

Jeff 01:02
How are you doing Doreen?

Doreen 01:03
We started videotaping these for YouTube. But I’m not sure if this episode will be up yet, but stay tuned. Should be soon.

Jeff 01:11
Yeah, it’ll be up probably the hopefully the week after the week of.

Doreen 01:16
We have to do a few to get production in place. So I’m not sure exactly when, but we’re hoping they’re going to drop on a Monday along with the actual podcast, whatever carriers that you’re using.

Jeff 01:29
Well, either way, the audio will be out on Monday.

Doreen 01:31
Absolutely. I just want people to know that we’re going to be doing it on video too. It takes a long time to get ready for the video. You know, when you’re doing the podcast, you can sit there with, you know, no makeup in your whatever kind of clothes. You don’t have to worry about that. But when you’re on video, you got to make a little effort.

Jeff 01:49
Okay. Well, I want to let all the listeners or watchers out there know that she looks this great all the time, whether no makeup or not.

Doreen 01:57
Anyhow, we just thought it would be more interesting for people to see us from time to time. So we are filming here in our house. And you know, we’ll talk about that more, because, again, not sure if this one’s going to be up for YouTube yet. And you know, this is in the corner of our living room area. We live in Boca Raton, Florida, South Florida on the water. So we are, we are, I guess, boat people, as they would say, yeah. So today, for example, which is what day, September 3, when we’re recording this for Monday’s episode, it is Stormy. Typical Florida summer, rainy most of the day, on and off, and then it’s sunny, and then back to the rain. They say in Florida, if you don’t like the weather…

Jeff 02:47
Just wait 10 minutes. Maybe not in the afternoon, though, in the afternoon you have to wait till evening.

Doreen 02:53
But a little bit more about us. I just want to take some time, because we don’t really talk well, I guess we do talk a lot about us, but Jeff and I met 15 years ago, second marriage for both of us. I had a very amicable marriage. I’m sorry divorce, and I’m still very good friends with my ex husband. We’ve raised three children who are in their 20s now, and I’m so proud of them. I have one who’s in North Carolina. She went to Elon University. I have one that went to Wofford college on a full volleyball ride, and then she’s at Auburn vet school. And I have another one who’s my baby, and she is here at just finished, graduated Florida, Gulf Coast, and is a marketing and journalist major working for one of my companies. So super great kids. Jeff and I got married 15 years ago. He didn’t have the same experience in his marriage, so I did not divorce, I should say.

Jeff 03:48
And we’re friends with your ex, not just your friends.

Doreen 03:52
Yes, we are friends.

Jeff 03:53
You were good friends with Sam. And no, I didn’t have the same experience. My experience was a lot different, and I think my divorce was a lot different. And it was very contentious, very knock down, drag out, so to speak, but not physical, of course, but it was very trying on on me and on her, and we’re glad that, on Spencer, of course, I see some things that I think are a result of the relationship that we had and but I do, I think he’s going to be okay, though.

Doreen 04:36
Yeah. So we were going to talk about something, but I’m wondering if we should talk about coparenting and the differences that it really makes based on our experiences as to what it means to have a good working co parent relationship with your ex, okay, okay. I think we should just have a conversation. I know we had something else.

Jeff 05:06
There was something in the about, the wants of the kids, etc.

Doreen 05:11
I know we talked about that at the beginning, so we would have to go in and change that, that entry where we talk about this, but it seems like it might be,

Jeff 05:19
Well, we can comingle the two.

Doreen 05:21
Yeah, we can, yeah, yeah. So we’ll just change it in the description a little bit. Listen, I think it’s a very important subject, because we did have very different experiences. And I think that our adult children, who are my girls, are 22 I’m being tested, 22-24 and going to be 27 and a few weeks, and they’re all thriving, as thriving as we can be as the humans, meaning that they get that life is a balance of good and bad. But they are, you know, in college, graduated college, one in vet school, doing well. You know, just good kids, good all over, just really good kids, very, very fortunate. And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that when I then when Sam and I divorced, and for those out there that do not know this, I’m a divorce attorney as well, and I’m board certified, which means I’m an expert. I’m one of 200 and something in the state, and I have a lot of experience with this, meaning divorce. And I own two law firms, because I knew that as much as Sam and I maybe didn’t agree on certain issues, we had to get along for the children. No question, it was not even I was going to do whatever it took to make sure that we co parented on a on a very high level together. And the kids were young. They were like, 5,7,9, and Spencer was eight. I don’t if I recall. So we made it a very big thing that we would just stop the litigation, settle our case, because litigation affects kids. Even if the kid issues are not an issue, the litigation itself affects the children. It just does guys. So you can resolve all your parenting issues, but if you’re stuck fighting about money and stuff, your kids are being affected by the litigation, because even if you try to keep it away from them, it presents in how you live your days when you’re in litigation.

Jeff 07:23
It’s not just a litigation. I mean, every negative energy, negative feeling, conversation that you have in the household affects the children. They’re very intelligent. They have big ears, and they’re affected by every negative comment and conversation you had during the divorce.

Doreen 07:44
It’s not only just the negative comments that they may overhear. It’s the way you present yourself. You know what I’m saying, like you’re just not usually in litigation in a good place, right? So it shows in your behavior, how you show up for your children. They get it. But anyhow, so we put an end to the divorce. We had two lawyers. Yes, I was a lawyer, hiring a lawyer because I’m a smart lawyer. And we decided one day, just that we were going to he actually contact me, I think it was, and he said, I want to put this to an end. Let’s leave the lawyers at bay, and let’s just sit down as two lawyers, he’s a lawyer to and figure this out with a mediator and be done with it. And we did. And we actually ended up having dinner that night after we had this really long mediation. And then from that point forward, we coparented really well together. So for example, things like what they were very the kids were very, very busy, very athletic. So if we were at a Sportings event, like after school, you know, soccer, volleyball, whatever the kids were doing, horseback riding, when we went to watch them, which we primarily always tried to both attend, we sat together. So when I saw him, I went and said to him, Can I sit here? And he said, Yes. And so we always sat together as Jeff came into my life, as you know, whoever he has in his life, like we always just sat together. It would be weird for us not to sit together when the kids were young, as they got older and Megan, our middle one was playing d1 volleyball. We didn’t always sit together because, you know, he had his guy group, and he was tailgating live. And is a different experience, a different vibe, but, but we would many times at the college level as well, even though the kids, you know, she was already 18.

Jeff 09:38
Right? You know, there, but we have seen divorced parents sit like on the opposite side of the auditorium from each other. They don’t look at each other, they don’t say, Hi, you know, you get it. But it’s a shame, and it’s sad to see, the kids…

Doreen 09:54
You know this person. I was lucky, because Sam is an amazing guy, and so. It was very, very easy to coparent with him. We both shared very much the same philosophy in parenting, so that was easy. And he’s a nice guy, so, and there was no, like, real cause of the marriage breaking down. It wasn’t like there was this cheating going on, at least that I’m aware, or anything like this. It just was a decision, and so, yeah, but I think it’s really important. So the bottom line is that I think it’s really important that you try whatever you can do to coparent, to put on a front where you truly respect each other as parents, and, you know, be as unified as you can now, know, not like, necessarily Sam and I, I mean, we would, I just went to his dad. We just went to his dad’s funeral. Like, you know, I’m saying, but, but certainly, if you can do those things, even better. Have them over for Christmas dinner. You know, have them. You know, have them over set share events together. Like, why not? If you’re having a birthday party for a child. Say, Hey, you want to come by for a few hours, you know, that type of stuff. I don’t know, but you had a very different experience.

Jeff 11:09
Yeah, I had a different experience, and one that was very, like I said, very contentious, but we were just not on the same page with I don’t think anything, and it’s unfortunate, because we we took ourselves first, we considered our own feelings, our own thoughts first, versus what’s in the best interest of Spencer and our son.

Doreen 11:37
Wait, say that again.

Jeff 11:38
I you know you said that you would always take the kids interest first, okay. We didn’t do that. You know, we loved Spencer crazily, and we loved him very much, but when it came to her and I, we would battle each other, not taking Spencer into consideration at all.

Doreen 11:59
Like give an example.

Jeff 12:01
Well, for an example, just, let’s say, going through the divorce in general, not just for an example, but going through the divorce in general. It was her against me and me against her.

Doreen 12:14
Withith regard to him?

Jeff 12:16
In regard to, well, to him, and to anything but the decisions that we made were not based on what was Spencer’s best interest. It was based on what I wanted and based on what she wanted, and what I wanted was something she definitely didn’t want because I wanted it, and something that I wanted was definitely not what she wanted because she wanted it. If that makes sense.

Doreen 12:39
It does, but I mean looking back at it, would you have done things differently?

Jeff 12:45
Oh, absolutely.

Doreen 12:46
So what would so now, having those positions during litigation, it seems that you both were holding strong to whatever positions you had. What would you have done differently, watching me and Sam, knowing your own experience and the education of being married to me and seeing divorces and dealing as a coach with divorces, right?

Jeff 13:08
Well, you know, that has really helped me become the coach that I am. I think first of all, I would have never married her, right? Because we married each other on different pretenses than most people do. You know, we got pregnant, and that’s why we got married, which I thought was the right thing to do, but it’s the right thing to do, but it’s not the right thing reason to get married.

Doreen 13:32
Well, and it may be the right thing to do, depending on each person’s code of ethics, well, morality or, you know, whatever it is.

Jeff 13:41
I think if you have a code of ethics, and I say this lightly, but you’re marrying somebody who doesn’t because of those ethics, you’re still, you’re asking for trouble.

Doreen 13:51
But that’s still judgment, so let me just call you at that out.

Jeff 13:55
It’s an armchair quarterback type.

Doreen 13:58
But you’re still saying something.

Jeff 14:00
Because I didn’t go into the marriage thinking that. I went into the marriage thinking it was going to be hunky dory and and all roses and everything like you see in the movies or you read about, you know, I was 40 years old and held out for something for a while, and I wanted a child, and I just wanted that family that I heard about, I saw.

Doreen 14:26
then maybe you would have made the same decision to get married.

Jeff 14:31
Well, not knowing what I know now, I wouldn’t knowing what I know now, I wouldn’t, because I probably would have, you can still have a child and not be married.

Doreen 14:40
Well, that’s the thing. I mean, it sounds to me that you got married not just because she was pregnant and you thought it was the right thing to do for whatever reason, but also because of your own personal desire, that you wanted to have a relationship and a family because you were 40 and whatever.

Jeff 14:59
I guess I was hoping for what for that, okay, but never saw that come to fruition.

Doreen 15:05
Okay, but, but, I mean, nobody really knows until they get married, what it’s going to look like after they’re married, even if you’re living together. I’m sure you have more insight, of course. But you really don’t know when you’re starting a family, especially, what it’s gonna be.

Jeff 15:22
That’s why there’s 50% divorces out there, because 50% people are right and 50% of the people are wrong.

Doreen 15:29
And even when you think you’re right, you’re wrong.

Jeff 15:31
I mean, here we have two people, and we’re 50% of us were right and 50% of us were wrong, right? You know, so and the experiences were a lot different when it came to the result of our child and how he was raised, to completely separate households, to completely separate code of values and rules, requirements, discipline, discipline, you name it, no matter what it was, it seemed like we were opposite on everything.

Doreen 16:06
Yeah, I remember that it was really challenging for me, too as a stepmom, because the rules that Sam and I adopted for each other and for our children, meaning that we would coparent. Really were things that we just had already agreed on because the kids were already like I said, 5,7,9, like we agreed to certain things. Of course, they changed along the of the years, but we just always went into that that partnership as parents aligned like there wasn’t a lot that we had to say, because we just understood fundamentally what we expected because of who we already were and the families we came from, even though they were very different. I came from a single mom family where I became self educated, and, you know, put myself through school and the hard knocks, okay, and Sam came from the doctor family and all that, so, but the work ethic was there and the expectations were there. So we were very aligned.

Jeff 17:11
Well, very early in Spencer’s life, we were never aligned. So even though we stayed married, and may have not have been a good reason to stay married, but we stayed married knowing that things were out of alignment, right? So you know again, you had it where you guys could coparent, and even if you weren’t going to be married anymore, you had the same core values for the children, where, even when we were married, we had different values for one child, for our child.

Doreen 17:53
Looking back now, besides the fact you would have said, you said that you would have potentially questioned getting married in this first place because she was pregnant and the reasons behind it, but by looking back as to when the divorce happened and now you were officially divorced, visitation schedule in place and coparenting under in Florida, they call it shared parental responsibility, what then would you have done different? Let me ask the question. I’m being a lawyer right now, what then not your honor, just a lawyer. But I like that too, knowing what you know now, yeah, looking back then, when he was seven years old and you got divorced, right? Okay, what would you have done differently? It’s a big question, assuming she would be exactly how she is.

Jeff 18:49
Well, I think I..

Doreen 18:51
which, by the way, I’m going to say, for the purposes of this question, include someone who isn’t a disciplinarian, doesn’t require homework to be done on certain times was not very big into activities and sports and being you know what it requires, practices and commitment on those levels, you know, like those types of things.

Jeff 19:16
Well, you know, that’s a tough question, because when you’re going uphill with somebody, and it’s so much easier for the child to go downhill with the other person, and you have each other 50% of the time, it’s very difficult to raise a child going uphill and teach him that life is difficult. You have to go for it. You have to struggle, but you have to be home at a certain hour. You have to do that when mom lets him do whatever he wants to do.

Doreen 19:50
No, but I’m not letting you off that easy, Jeff.

Jeff 19:52
I didn’t say, let me off.

Doreen 19:54
That’s a great philosophy. It’s beautiful, right? We understand it’s not easy. To go uphill, up battle trying to discipline and raise a child with morals and values and understand homework and commitment and all those things. When you have half of the side that on their watch, they don’t require any of that. So I said keeping that as it is. What would you have done differently?

Jeff 20:21
The only thing I probably could have done differently is set more boundaries. Set more boundaries and hold to them, and stick to them.

Doreen 20:33
With your son?

Jeff 20:34
Yeah, with my son, yeah. Of course, you already had boundaries with yours. Didn’t need them very much.

Doreen 20:42
They knew, they all should listen to our boundaries episode. We’ll put it in. We’ll put in the description. But boundaries are extremely important with children, and we have a great example that we talk about with Spencer action.

Jeff 20:57
Yeah, we did.

Doreen 20:58
I think for sure, discipline boundaries, because as stepmom, like they I couldn’t I was in this very awkward place of having him in the evenings while you worked. You used to own martial arts schools, and you were there in the evening, and so between the hours of, let’s say, when the kids get home and dinner and everything. So from five to like, eight, you weren’t around. And if he was at our house, it was very hard for me. I couldn’t discipline him, you know, I could, I could require him, hey, come to the table, you know, pick up your plate, those types of things, because I prepared dinner. But with regard to homework and bedtime and getting off the computers and the games and video games, yeah, I just, I left that really to you, and I think that we could have probably, I could have asserted probably more authority, and maybe it could have been where you would have given me more in front of him and that, Doreen, you know, it’s not your mom, but she’s going to be doing certain things.

Jeff 21:59
And probably, uh, with the the karate school and the hours that I was working, either he could have been there with me, doing martial arts, working, doing his homework, or something like that, or he didn’t want to do that, possibly change, uh, change my career, yeah, but, but it was difficult, you know, thinking about that, it was that was a difficult time.

Doreen 22:23
Here’s what I think could have happened differently for those, those with challenging co parents don’t engage with them, right? There was a lot of back and forth text messaging, mostly where you guys were just at each other, right? And it served no purpose. It was like this, this tit for tat on ongoing text messaging, going nowhere, being mean spirited, all centered around Spencer, but really, probably a much deeper issue, you know, way beyond Spencer, between the two of you, that just never got resolved, or something, I don’t know, but I think that could have stopped for sure, and making our own arrangements for Spencer in spite of the and not relying on the other parent. Like, in other words, if there was a practice, we would need to make sure that we got them there and back, like just taking, taking that initiative, right, right, right? Because sometimes you just can’t rely on the other parent. You just make your own plan. It’s just easier quicker. You just handle it. Yeah, right, yeah. So I’m this turned into so I’m curious, you know, for the listeners out there what they’re going through as far as co parenting issues, and I would highly advise to really consider not going to court on most issues, because we did, yeah, And it’s, it’s the courts are not really equipped to Mike what they call micromanage your post divorce relationships and how you co parent. They’ll deal with big issues like what school they’re going to go to that’s a big issue, God forbid, if they need some kind of an operation and medical issue like, and you say, one doctor, and she says another. And, you know, we need somebody to decide those types of big issues, right? But for the small issues, like doing homework. And, you know, I’ve seen, you know, I’ve had people that have wanted to file pleadings about, you know, we’re vegetarian, and he’s feeding, he’s feeding him, you know, McDonald’s. And you know, they don’t have the, you know, they don’t return the clothes with the packed, you know, clothes that with with you when you come back, so that there’s always stuff missing, or many issues about the cell phone usage and who’s paying for it. And dad can’t, you know, has to give it to the child, all these things. And of course, just they’re not really equipped to deal with it. It cost a fortune, and nobody wins.

Jeff 25:09
It kind of reminded me of that episode we did on sweating the small stuff. Yeah, because it seems like a lot of the things, if you think about the best interest and the love of the child, what you’re bickering over is just nonsense.

Doreen 25:20
Nonsense. And then lawyers are making money, and you’re spending your child’s future earning, you know, ability to go to college or something. I mean, it’s just not worth it. So anyhow,

Jeff 25:31
Coparenting, I guess.

Doreen 25:34
The do’s and the don’ts, and learning from our experiences. And so we just kind of went with it.

Jeff 25:38
Oh, I hope so. I hope somebody out there reaches out to us and lets us know what’s going on with their coparenting life.

Doreen 25:44
Yeah, tough stuff. But I think that, you know, as hard as it is to kind of extend that olive branch after divorce, and when you go through a lot and you have a lot of bad things between the two of you, if you can extend that olive branch for the sake of your child and what it’s going to look like, because it really does affect them later in life. We’re dealing with that now, and we are convinced that a lot of what our son is dealing with right now has to do with the co parenting that he went through. I’m not going to get into it, you know, and what that involves. But let’s just say that, you know, it’s been challenging, and he’s in his mid 20s, so.

Jeff 26:29
Still a work in progress.

Doreen 26:31
Yeah, so think about the future of your kids as well.

Jeff 26:33
Yeah.

Doreen 26:34
All right.

Jeff 26:34
All right. Well, good episode all of a sudden.

Doreen 26:36
Yeah, why not? Sometimes just do it off the cuff.

Jeff 26:41
Okay, all right. Thank you very much.

Doreen 26:43
Thank you very much.

Jeff 26:44
All right, have a good week.

Doreen 26:45
You want to talk about our giveaway. Because I think it’s the final,

Jeff 26:49
Final couple of days, actually.

Doreen 26:51
Yeah, by the time that this episode plays, there’ll only be a few days left to enter.

Jeff 26:56
What are we doing? We’re giving away the Thrive After Divorce program, which includes, well, it’s 12 weeks of coaching, one on one coaching. There’s six videos that go.

Doreen 27:11
That’s our dog in the background, chasing lizards.

Jeff 27:16
So you have six videos, and you have two weeks of discussion over each video and some little bit of paperwork to do in between, little bit of questionnaires that let you dive deeper into it. Yeah, that’s a great program valued over $3,500 all for free.

Doreen 27:32
Enter to win, yeah, and there’s second prizes as well. And this is legit, like this is no BS, we are actually giving this program away, and we’re giving out the second the second prizes. And why not? You know, I like the thrive at divorce, thrive after divorce program best. I know that a lot of your clients prefer the one on one, just custom package. I think because people don’t like to do the work. But I but which is, you know, we have, like, we have, like, workbooks or work pages, and then you do follow up questions and really dive in. And there’s videos that go with it. And I love that one because as it’s more challenging, but when you write things down and you get through this, like a course, along with the coaching, beautiful things happen.

Jeff 28:19
Well, you also talked to me the other day about the Thrive program takes you through the steps of divorce, for example, understanding your emotions, what you’re going through, understanding what the manual is and the boundaries, and, of course, then getting into goal setting and being accountable. It’s really definitely a structured program, right? What I think a lot of people shy away from it is, I have clients that aren’t necessarily going through after divorce, right? So they say, Well, let me pick the custom, because I’m still married, right? Or, you know, so I think we have a little we have something for everybody.

Doreen 28:57
We have something for everybody. Well, we have, we have two really programs, custom or not, and then sometimes something else maybe.

Jeff 29:03
Custom means something for everybody.

Doreen 29:07
Yeah. Well, no, it is. It’s a great, but look, when you’re coaching and you can’t, this is not like you go for in for one or two sessions and like, it’s, it’s, it’s like, we’re miracle workers? No, it’s going to be really uncovering where you want to land from this divorce and what you want your life to look like, and then putting the work in. You got to put the work in so and it’s an accountability partner. It’s someone who can help you to see clearly about your feelings and your thoughts and what you want, and that’s hard enough in and of itself for most of us, and to really get off this auto pilot, pilot life you’re living, which many of us live, after divorce, especially, and to really stop, slow down and figure it out, like what you really want now.

Jeff 29:57
And the other thing I was thinking about the other day. Is you can register to win for somebody else. You know, you may have a friend going through divorce, or a friend that is thinking about having some issues, issues, either they can register to win or you can register for them.

Doreen 30:14
I think the person should register, because it should, you know, I could see like somebody like, hey, my best friend’s going through some really tough times with her divorce, so I registered her, and then you call her or whatever, she wins, and you’re like, she’s..

Jeff 30:26
Oh, I mean, let them know about it, but, or let them know that there’s a contest.

Doreen 30:30
Just send it to them.

Jeff 30:30
Yeah, send it to them.

Doreen 30:31
All right, my dear.

Jeff 30:32
We’ll see you next week.

Doreen 30:34
On to the next one. All right.

Jeff 30:35
Have a good one, everybody. Bye, bye.

Jeff 30:45
You have the vision of what you want your life to look like after divorce, but maybe you just don’t know how to get there. So if you’re ready to take control of your life and want to find out more about our coaching, visit us at lad-coaching.com that’s LAD as in lad-coaching.com

Doreen 31:08
Until next time, have an amazing rest of your day and remember, yes, you can have an amazing life after divorce.

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