Ep. 167 – How Do I Know When To Divorce?

Jeff 00:00
Hello everybody out there. When is it time to get divorced? Or how do you know? Or what do you do when you’re questioning yourself about that? So that’s what we’re going to talk about today on episode 167 so if you’re ready, let’s get started.

Doreen 00:24
Are you ready to create a life that’s better than ever before? We are Doreen Yaffa and Jeff Wilson, and we are here to give you the strategies you need to create the life after divorce that you deserve and desire. As partners both in marriage and coaching, we use our expertise as well as our own personal experiences to help you make the next chapter of your life, the best chapter. Hey, Jeff.

Jeff 00:58
Hey, Doreen, how are you?

Doreen 00:59
I’m good.

Jeff 01:00
Looking beautiful again, as always.

Doreen 01:02
We had a nice night last night. We went and saw- Oh my gosh, it was so much fun. We went and saw the Kravis Center Shrek, the musical. And I have to tell you, it was such a good time, wasn’t it? I thought that the singing was amazing. The theatrics were over the top, the story and the the way in which they presented it. They had all these little funny innuendos, and it was really well done. It was a good time, unexpected. I think you may you had mentioned to me is I have never seen you watch something so intensely. I know because you were, like, glued to it.

Jeff 01:41
I was having such a good time watching it.

Doreen 01:43
It was so much fun. I want to go back. Today we’re going to go see a band called Southern blood with my sister Diane and her boyfriend, Albert. And yeah, it’s- we’re into southern music, southern country music.

Jeff 01:57
Well, it’s actually Southern rock. It’s not country music. It’s Southern rock.

Doreen 02:03
Exactly. But we like all kinds

Jeff 02:04
We do, we do.

Doreen 02:06
Anyhow, so today we’re going to talk about when it’s time to get divorced. And before we started this, I sat down, I looked at Jeff, and I looked at the paper that, you know, the outline that we had collaborated on, and then he took it and ran with it. And I’m like, well wait a second, yeah, these things seem kind of obvious. And so we’ll go through some of these things that you might be experiencing if your marriage is in trouble, you’re thinking about divorce, or maybe your marriage just has run its course, and that’s what I want to talk about, that a failed marriage is failed is really subjective, because there were so many good times, good years in a marriage. So just because something ends, just because something it’s time to move on-

Jeff 02:55
It served its purpose.

Doreen 02:56
In anything in life, it’s not even serving a purpose. It was beautiful. It was special. It had ups, it had downs, because that’s a human experience. There is no perfect marriage. There is no perfect person-

Jeff 03:10
Perfect anything.

Doreen 03:11
There’s no perfect anything. So, of course, marriage is both good and bad and ups and downs. But anyhow-

Jeff 03:16
I think this is just a can maybe an eye opener for you to be maybe validate some of your feelings.

Doreen 03:22
The signals as they say.

Jeff 03:23
The signals might be validation, yes, yeah.

Doreen 03:26
So we can talk about this. So one that’s pretty obvious, but maybe it’s been happening throughout your marriage anyhow, even when things are good, is a lack of respect. I don’t think we need to explain it, what it is, but basically dismissing or rejecting each other’s feelings, thoughts, boundaries, those types of things. And being a divorce attorney, I see a lot of this. Respect yourself, please people. Don’t let other people treat you this way. I see it all the time. I just had a woman recently has no money. Her husband will not let her leave the house without tracking her.

Jeff 04:05
Wow.

Doreen 04:06
Okay and you know, has nothing to her name because he controls everything and the children. Same thing with the children. He can supposedly- this is what she tells me, controlling the children in the same way. I think there’s three young children just very, very controlling and, you know, to the point of having to know where they are every minute. So I don’t know. I think that’s a lack of respecting yourself.

Jeff 04:33
I was just gonna say that you hit it right on that when you said when you accept people who don’t respect you, it’s lacking self respect.

Doreen 04:40
And that probably might be a time to think, “Am I ready for divorce?” I know one of the things that you don’t have on your list, but I want to mention it.

Jeff 04:50
What’s that?

Doreen 04:50
Because I’ve experienced this personally, and it’s not here. When I knew that-

Jeff 04:56
No personal connection?

Doreen 04:57
It’s on here. No, no, you have that down here. You have something about that down here. But when you just no longer like care about caring. Does that make sense? Really? Where is that?

Jeff 05:02
It’s I believe it’s on the next page where it says… wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, where is it? Where is it? Can you pause it for a second?

Doreen 05:30
No, I can’t pause it.

Jeff 05:31
You can’t pause it?

Doreen 05:32
We’re just going to come back to it. We’ll get there.

Jeff 05:35
We’ll get there.

Doreen 05:37
Okay, but let me finish.

Jeff 05:38
Go ahead. I want to hear your thoughts.

Doreen 05:39
Wow, we’re full of energy because we’re we’re recording this and ready to go out on a Saturday night. So that’s how much we love you guys. We’re just, we love doing this, and this is when it fit in, and we’re happy to do it, and we’re like, so looking forward to saying what we want to say today. We’re trying to get it all in really quickly. But when you stop caring about trying in the relationship. You know when you start thinking about, but what if? What would it look like if I was single again? What would it be like you start really spending a lot of time- I guess it is on here, daydreaming thing. Well, I don’t call it daydreaming. Daydreaming is not what we teach in coaching. Daydreaming has a place in fairy tales and things like this. I was just having the same issue with somebody that was writing some of my social media stuff, and I’m like, we, you know, we coach a certain way. It’s not wishing and hoping. Those things all sound beautiful and nice, but if you want something in life, the goal is and the way to get it is to just get down and get it. It’s not about hopes and dreams. I mean, those are beautiful things that we can all have, and they feel warm and fuzzy, but you have to make things happen.

Jeff 07:04
I think we replace goals with goals and action plans. Because hopes and dreams are you can hope and dream your life away. Taking action on your goals and setting realistic, concrete goals, that’s where you’re going to end up getting things accomplished.

Doreen 07:23
Of course. But a lot of the people were probably that are listening to us. They may be stuck in a marriage thinking about time, if it’s time to get divorced, which is supposed to be the podcast topic And it is. And they might be paralyzed where they are think they are paralyzed. So you’re talking about someone really that already has the goals. And what I’m saying is these people, when it’s time to go through divorce, they’re really in that “where do I go?” stage like because you’re not going to go as a partnership, and that’s a much different goal setting than if you’re going to be a single now moving forward towards your goals. So for today’s topic, I think that if you’re thinking about divorce, you’re kind of at that crossroad. It’s might be even hard for you to set goals because you can’t- you’re not knowing. Is it going to be just me, because maybe I want to be divorced, or maybe he said he wants to, or is it going to be us? Yeah, well, I think that’s why you hire us. You know, to help you not determine that, but to set your goals once you have determined. Not just us, any good coach. You know that is into goal setting and figuring out what you want in life and all that, which is mindset, thoughts, thought work, a lot of thought work that we do. So, yes. But anyhow.

Jeff 08:46
And you know, one of the most important things I think there is in a relationship is intimacy, physical contact. I mean, the ability to show your love to somebody. And I think that lack of that is kind of the next thing on here.

Doreen 09:02
Well, that is the next one.

Jeff 09:03
I know.

Doreen 09:04
We’re gonna have to bullet point this.

Jeff 09:07
Well, I’m talking about it now because it’s the next one.

Doreen 09:09
Are you trying to tell me something?

Jeff 09:11
Yes, time to move on. Got a concert to go to and you know what? Go ahead.

Doreen 09:17
No, but lack of intimacy. You know you just don’t want the person touching you. You’re not into the romance, the stuff you know and-

Jeff 09:27
Or you do, and they don’t.

Doreen 09:28
Right and so that’s probably a big sign.

Jeff 09:33
That’s a big sign. And then I think number three was what you were talking about, the lack of investment. You’re not totally into it, you’re not invested into the relationship.

Doreen 09:42
The partnership is breaking up potentially, and so you don’t want to put any more time, money and effort into it. Just like a business, right? You’re kind of like, wait a second, what’s going on here?

Jeff 09:52
Exactly.

Doreen 09:52
Lack of communication. I think that’s pretty obvious, right?

Jeff 09:56
Yeah, well I mean, I agree with that one a big time.

Doreen 10:00
Or if there is communication, it’s negative, it’s you know, accusatory, it’s not nice, right?

Jeff 10:06
Yeah or you don’t necessarily agree on anything, or the vital signs that is important.

Doreen 10:12
That’s the next one.

Jeff 10:14
Well, I mean, when you communicate, I know, I know, we’re kind of, you know.

Doreen 10:19
How about we just announced the next one?

Jeff 10:21
And the next one is lack of agreement. Okay, you know and I think the vital issues, like maybe about the children or what you make for dinner or where you want to live, those type of things, if you don’t agree on these type of things, that’s a big sign.

Doreen 10:44
Yeah, I think that when a lot of marriages are breaking down, they don’t agree on what they’re going to have for dinner tonight. Like you’re talking bigger level, and I’m like, they’re not agreeing about much here, right?

Jeff 10:57
Well I mean about what having for dinner. I mean, like, you want to be a vegan and I want to eat a McDonald’s.

Doreen 11:02
Right Jeff. And what I’m suggesting is maybe the conversations have gotten to a point where they can’t agree on anything like yours are higher level, right?

Jeff 11:12
Right, right. Okay, what’s next?

Doreen 11:15
Well, obviously abuse.

Jeff 11:17
Are we agreeing on something?

Doreen 11:19
Yeah, I don’t know. Wait a second, is somebody taking, like, a checklist, because I don’t know. Are we, is it time to be? Are we headed towards divorce? Just kidding. Abuse. That one- no, let’s get serious. I mean, if there is physical abuse on any level, it is not okay. And please, seek- talk to the authorities, get help. There’s lots of available resources for that. You certainly don’t want to stay in a relationship and you should not stay in a relationship that has any kind of physical abuse.

Jeff 11:55
Or mental abuse.

Doreen 11:56
Okay, but physical, I wanted to give that disclaimer. Get help. Okay, I’ve seen personally as a divorce attorney, too many things that can go wrong when you don’t, okay? So that’s that. Emotional abuse, I think that happens in a lot of unfortunate, you know, as a breakdown of marriages when there’s emotional abuse. But I think, like even what I was telling the listeners earlier about the gentleman who’s, well, let’s not call him a gentleman, the husband who is so controlling of his entire family, I think that’s a form of abuse.

Jeff 12:31
Absolutely being very controlling.

Doreen 12:34
Manipulative, controlling, financial. Let’s- infidelity obviously. We’re gonna, we gotta run through these. Financial distress, you know, your spouse’s financial decisions are causing huge distress. Toxic criticism. I’m reading the list.

Jeff 12:55
Yes, you’re often criticized, and typically it’s unfair. It’s very one sided.

Doreen 13:03
Well, you know, I really don’t think that criticizing has any- if you’re doing the criticizing, I think this works both ways. Let me slow down for a minute. If you’re criticizing your spouse a lot, it’s not just about being criticized, but if you are the criticizer, it is a sign, potentially, to get divorced. Something’s wrong you don’t like this person the way they are. That’s a bigger lesson for another day, where we talk about the model, which we’ve done several episodes on, and go back and listen to that. But-

Jeff 13:38
The manual you mean.

Doreen 13:39
The manual. I’m sorry, there’s a lot of criticism going on with people who are trying to change their spouse into something that they are not. And it will not happen, you will exhaust yourself. So you have to decide, am I going to stay in this relationship with this person being who he is or she is exactly as they are, all the good, all the bad, and everything in between, and can I live with that? So I think a lot of these topics that we’re discussing, it works on both sides. Be open to the idea, and this is where coaching comes in play that you may be the one who is doing what may not be considered the good act, the lack of respect, the lack of commitment or communication, you know, the abuse, even the emotional abuse, if you are doing those things, it’s probably a signal to get divorced as well.

Jeff 13:40
Probably looking at the list. I’m sure that, you know, they can look at the list and say, Oh, that one’s mine. Oh, that one’s yours. This one’s mine. And they probably each have their own part. So if, let’s say, for an example, someone’s being lacking the respect they deserve, then they’re probably not wanting to be intimate with them. So some people, they may not want to communicate because they the other side communicates disrespectfully. So I think that every, everyone, every person on this list may be a part of it.

Doreen 15:14
Of course. Jeffrey, welcome to the reality of the world.

Jeff 15:18
Well, that’s what I’m telling our listeners, that it’s not just one sided-

Doreen 15:22
No, Jeff.

Jeff 15:23
Yes?

Doreen 15:24
I hate to tell you something, but you’ve been around me for 15 years as a divorce attorney, okay? And you’ve been divorced before, and you’ve been and, you know, my divorce situation and all the things, okay? And it is never just one person that causes the breakdown of a marriage.

Jeff 15:43
My point exactly.

Doreen 15:44
Okay, it is always, I don’t care, even, I mean, maybe I would only suggest, if there is some physical abuse, something like this, you know, of that level. But I’m talking about the rest that are not like that. We have all we’re all human. We all have done the good and the bad on this list, been the victim and been the the person who has you know-

Jeff 16:12
The contributor.

Doreen 16:13
The contributor, yes. So anyhow, I think you know, it’s not just looking at what the other person has done and how you might fall into this. It’s also what you are doing potentially. So you don’t have to live like that. You know, there is another life, and sometimes marriages just don’t work out, and that’s okay. It served its purpose. There were beautiful times. I consider there- it’s not a breakdown in of the marriage, necessarily, it’s just a time to move past.

Jeff 16:44
Well, that’s why we say a lot of the next chapter and writing of reinventing yourself, because it is a time of rebirth. You know, and you know, some of the things that we’re talking about I think one point that we should make is nobody deserves this. So I know a lot of people think that, I deserve this so I put up with it. So there is a better life and most times, you know, in your divorce, probably situations and in my with my clients, their grass is greener. Your- the next chapter is beautiful. The next it is a nice, you know, nice truth.

Doreen 17:23
Well it is, but there- I don’t know. Recently, you know, there have been a lot of people that I’ve spoken to in consulting, when somebody consults with a lawyer before they’re going to move forward with a divorce or they’re considering it. I have had a record number of those and with very abusive relationships, you know, people that are just the victims of abuse, of emotional abuse, and all of- a lot of what you’re talking about and it’s been going on for years. You know, it’s been going on for years. It’s just been somewhat tolerated. And so I think in a lot of these situations, if you have a pattern of being with someone that falls into one of these categories, like lack of respect or emotional abuse, there’s probably some back work that needs to be done on you as well. Because there are patterns that we see, and we are not therapists, but as a divorce attorney and as coaches, Jeff coaching, we see a pattern of of people who are reporting abuse and then being abused or disrespected or you know, one side is controlling of the finances. That’s another thing that happens a lot with divorce. You know, the financial issues come up, people talk about that, and then you find that they come from a background where their father was very controlling with dollars with the mother, and they grew up in a family where money was a big issue, so the kids had to really work for the money and the father was very like, you can’t you know, have this cookie, you gotta go like you know, wash down you know 10 cars or something, I don’t know. You know I’m saying, like some ridiculous thing and I’m like, now she’s with a man who totally holds money from her.

Jeff 19:23
Yeah, the father figure.

Doreen 19:24
No, but uses money as the abuse. I mean, there’s so much of this, and, you know, my hope is that people are strong enough to really think about if it’s better off to get out of these relationships. If they’re strong enough. You know, because it’s so easy just to stay in inner marriage, because it’s convenient and it’s known and the unknown is so scary, especially, I think for people that are dealing with some of these serious issues.

Jeff 19:57
It comes up later on when it talks about being scared. All right, avoidance. We’ve kind of hit that one already. I know you don’t like the word so let’s talk about-

Doreen 20:09
We talked about that.

Jeff 20:10
Kind of imagining yourself as single. Imagine yourself out there in the dating scene today. Well, that’s scary too. But sometimes, I guess that’s a one of the signs that you’re kind of checked out of your marriage.

Doreen 20:28
Yeah, we talked about that, I think, at the beginning, right? Oh, this is a big one. If I got a dime for every time I heard this. I’m staying for the children. I want to get divorced. I understand my rights. I’ll be fine. I get it, but I’m going to stay for the children.

Jeff 20:50
I was guilty of that. You know, when I promised myself as soon as Spencer was able to speak and let me know that he was going to be okay when he was with his mother, that’s when I was going to file for divorce.

Doreen 21:07
Yeah, but your circumstance was different, Jeff. You had a situation in which you had a young child that could not communicate what was going on with mom and there were serious concerns.

Jeff 21:19
Well, that could be situations that are out there with our listeners.

Doreen 21:22
And that I think you stay with the children. I’ve had those- I’ve had those conversations. It depends on the facts, but I have counsel people to stay until the child is of age can communicate, because the court system is very iffy on what it’s very hard to prove somebody is abusing alcohol and drugs. It’s very hard thing, for example, to prove. And so because people usually don’t do this kind of stuff in front of others, and so it- or and then witnesses don’t want to come forward, and so it’s extremely hard to prove. So I tell them, if you have young children and you have an abuse, you know, something like your situation, you would stay.

Jeff 22:05
And I think in every single one of these examples that we’re going through, you know, I like the listeners to keep in mind that we know that every situation can be different. So don’t take what we’re saying is this is what you should do.

Doreen 22:21
This was your experience.

Jeff 22:23
Right, so every listener out there has a different experience.

Doreen 22:27
Absolutely, they should seek counsel from an attorney in their area, but- and also the therapist. But us, but when you, when I hear and I see people that do not have those situations, they have cordial relationships with their spouse, they get along, they even enjoy each other’s company, but someone wants to get divorced and move on and that’s okay and people stay because of the children and they make that decision. And that’s- that can be something to question as well.

Jeff 23:06
Yeah. Well, I think that there in a lot of situations and it may be not as extreme as mine or as cordial as your example, but I think in most cases, the kids are much better off after the divorce.

Doreen 23:22
Well wait, we can’t- we’re not therapists. I’m going to report what I’ve seen and what I’ve heard from therapists generally, is that children will learn the type of relationship that you show them. And they will think that is- I’m talking in simple terms, not their terms, okay? And they will want to find that, consciously or subconsciously, right? They may fall into that pattern again.

Jeff 23:50
Yeah, very similar to the woman that-

Doreen 23:53
So when you’re in a relationship, a marriage where there is yelling, anger, frustration, lack of love, parents doing their own thing, you know, no time together really, as husband wife with the family. It’s like moms with the kids and dads with the kids kind of thing. Maybe there’s even known adultery going on, going out a lot, whatever it is-

Jeff 24:20
The kids are smart.

Doreen 24:21
Kids are seeing all this and they’re thinking, “Well, mom and dad still seems somewhat okay. They don’t seem like they’re totally happy and like, you know, want to be around each other, but they seem okay with each other”. Maybe this is the way marriage is supposed to be.

Jeff 24:38
Right. Or the example that you did give where-

Doreen 24:41
Let me finish the thought on that.

Jeff 24:42
Okay well, I’m adding to the thought, go ahead.

Doreen 24:45
The thought is, well, go ahead.

Jeff 24:46
Well, I was just saying, you know, she grew up in a fam with a family and a parents that the dad took control of the money, and now she’s allowing it to happen to her as well.

Doreen 24:55
But this is something more subtle. I’m talking about the relationships. The marriages that stay together, and they’re relatively nice together, but they’re really distant and there was some anger and some underlying and the kids, you know, and parents spending time doing a lot of separate stuff. But it seems nice, you know? Okay, so the but the kids, but what the point being that the kids are learning this is what the therapist is told- have told me that is what marriage looks like. So they look for that they’re okay being in relationships in their future where it’s just okay, because that’s what they saw for their parents. So I this- if people are staying for the children, what I like to recommend them to do is go talk to a therapist, do some research, look online. There’s so much great material on this from really amazing experts, but then go talk to somebody about your facts and ask them, should I stay for the children? And go to a children psychologist to talk about this. You will gain a lot of insight on that. I think sometimes people always use that as an excuse. It feels good. Well, I’m staying for the children.

Jeff 26:10
Yes, I’m making a sacrifice.

Doreen 26:11
I’m a good mom. I’m staying for the children, or good dad, right? And it’s admirable, but it’s really because there’s fear there, probably that needs to be further worked on. Okay, what else?

Jeff 26:27
Well, the last one on the list is that marriage counseling just did not work. You know, you worked on your you’ve tried and failed and tried and failed and tried and failed.

Doreen 26:36
Yeah, you know what? Jeff, you’re going to get me down. I’m going to go down that road.

Jeff 26:41
All right, Bring it. Bring it down.

Doreen 26:42
Ready?

Jeff 26:43
Yes, I’m ready.

Doreen 26:44
You know what I think about marriage counseling?

Jeff 26:45
I do not.

Doreen 26:46
We have to discuss this. We’ve done, oh, maybe we haven’t done a podcast on this. Here’s my take on marriage counseling. Okay, some marriage counselors. And I have said this before in my podcast somewhere along the road, my take only good, bad or indifferent. Most, not all, marriage counselors do something like this. Jeff, could you please tell me the things that you don’t like about Doreen or the things you would like for her to change, or the things that bother you or the things that you would, you know, prefer, you know, use any adjective.

Jeff 27:25
Wouldn’t change a thing.

Doreen 27:27
I love you too. But no see. And then they say to the wife, Doreen, so tell me, tell us the things that you upset you about, Jeff and ba ba ba. And then the therapists try to get you to compromise or to work on a few things, right? And they might give you some exercises to do, but people will always be who they’re going to be. Very few times do people shift to be what the other person thinks they want them to be. Okay they may make a shift, but how do I say this? I want to articulate this carefully. They may make a shift to make a change, but remember, the vision of the shift is in the eye of the beholder. Who has this vision of what that change to be. And they may not be aligned. Could be a small change that this person maybe it’s I don’t know, pick something.

Jeff 28:29
Won’t take out the trash.

Doreen 28:30
Oh no. I think hopefully have bigger issues than this. Give me that financial issue.

Jeff 28:38
The husband doesn’t make any money and doesn’t contribute.

Doreen 28:41
There’s an income issue, okay, all right, so let’s say that wife is the breadwinner and wife is well, and husband is trying to contribute and making an effort, but he’s just not getting there. And wife thinks maybe, in her mindset, he’s just not working hard enough. He’s not focused, he’s not really dedicated. He’s putting some time in, he’s doing some small things, but he’s not really making the effort. And she’s over it. And they go to marriage counseling, right? And the marriage counselor says, “Jeff, what do you think about that?” Because she explains it and- not Jeff, I’m sorry, the hypothetical person. Yes, well there’s other Jeffs in the world. You know, and then this hypothetical guy says, “Yeah, you know, I could give some more effort. I could do this, I could do that.” And she’s all happy and this is a big issue in their marriage. And so she goes home, and then he starts to improve, but he’s only improving on what he understands that level to be. They haven’t really articulated it very well. And so she has a thought that he’s going to get up earlier every day and he’s going to work until eight o’clock and on Saturdays he’s not going golfing anymore. He’s going to work all day instead and he’s going to really put the time in, and he’s going to do all these things. She has it all listed out in her mind. We call it the manual. And he thinks what he’s doing, which is, let’s say he is getting up earlier, but he’s stopping right at five, and he’s still going to golf on Sundays, and they’re not aligned yet. And so she continues to get upset. The point being that people generally don’t change that much we want them to change, but what science and what therapists tell us is they really don’t shift that much.

Jeff 30:31
Question for you.

Doreen 30:32
Yes? So then you have to just accept that person as who they are, stay married with them and decide to be at peace with that, or move on.

Jeff 30:41
Well, that was my definitely my question. Are we talking about the other person changing, or are we talking about the other person changing their acceptance of the person?

Doreen 30:55
Both. I think it has to be both. It has to be the person- we’ve talked about this Jeff, this is part of our coaching when we talk about the manual, is that people don’t generally change, so we have to accept them as they are. And I know a lot of listeners don’t want to believe that, but it’s true. People just really do not change. Now there are exceptions, of course, like, let’s say somebody has a substance abuse issue and they go to rehab and they really give it 100% and they are sober. They are sober, and that was the major issue in their marriage. That was a major problem. That was the major thing that had to change that probably is something that is 100%. Well, we know it’s 100% doable, because people, fortunately become sober every day and maintain sobriety. It’s a beautiful thing, so, but most people are not going to change all that much. And so look at your husband. Look at your wife. This episode is about when it’s time to get divorced, and say to yourself, number one, if I met this man today or this woman today, and I knew everything I know, and we were just sitting in a bar across the way, looked his way, she looked his overhead to him, would you date him again? Number first question, okay? Guess what? What my answer with you is yes.

Jeff 30:56
Okay. Aww.

Doreen 32:31
It is, a 100%. I had to do that I almost got a tear. Because I would. I imagined you sitting there everything after 15 years and I would still go on a date with you.

Jeff 32:40
Oh, would you marry me though?

Doreen 32:42
That would be another decision.

Jeff 32:43
All right, all right.

Doreen 32:48
And then second question is now you’re in your current time with this, with your spouse, and you’re thinking, there’s all this stuff going on, so I want you to assume that your spouse, he’s going to stay, she’s going to stay exactly as she is now. She’s going to continue to do all those things that bother you. He’s going to continue to not do all the things you want him to do, and when he does, it’s wrong.

Jeff 33:20
Question coming here.

Doreen 33:22
And would you stay? Would you stay? Are you okay staying and not complaining about it anymore? Not complaining about it anymore. That’s the difference.

Jeff 33:34
That’s the difference. That’s the acceptance part.

Doreen 33:36
That’s the acceptance part, which I am working on. I am in the I am in the working on it stage. I think we should do, or at least you should do a webinar just on the manual. It is the most creative coach- I think one of the best coaching tools we have. Because when you get this down and you really understand it, and it takes hard work, I tell you. Every single day

Jeff 33:44
Let me just finish one thing. Other thing about the manual is the last part of the manual is that you base your happiness on what the other person does. So you’re expecting them to do it, whether they do it, whether they do it or not, part is whether you’re going to be happy or not. That’s why the manual works, because most of the people that have a manual on them don’t even realize that they have a manual. You know, you put this imaginary manual on them, that this is what you should do, and I base my happiness, and I base my happiness on whether you do it or not. So that’s, that’s the big- Speaking from experience?

Doreen 34:48
Yes but when you get it, there’s this piece that comes over you and just realizing that you don’t have to try to fix everything, that you can just be accepting or you can choose to leave, and that under any either circumstance it’s okay, and it’ll be better than expecting someone to change and being in this state of it’s like this overwhelming, I don’t even know, anxiety state that you live in.

Jeff 35:19
You feel stuck.

Doreen 35:20
And what you said and just to drive it home, because I know we’re over 30 minutes, and our last episode, I think was rather long too. But I just love these topics, and I just so passionate about them. Is what you said, which is, let’s go back to our couple that was in the waiting room, or I’m sorry, in the therapy room. They had financial issues. He was not pulling his weight. Okay? And I went through that whole scenario. She is betting all her happiness, that when he does make all that money, she’s gonna be so happy. Everything is just gonna be rainbows and unicorns and all that. And I have a rude awakening for her, it’s not going to be that way. That part of it will be better. He’ll make the money, and you’ll have a bit of relief. But I promise you something else-

Jeff 36:19
There will be something else.

Doreen 36:20
It’s kind of like that thing when you lose weight, if anybody out there has lost weight or gotten into, like a major shape, you think like, “Oh, if I only could weigh, you know, pick the number 125, you know, if I could go down to that and be solid, everything would be amazing,” you know? Or “Hey, if I could lose 10 pounds, it would be all great.” And then you lose it, and it’s like, why don’t I feel so good? That’s the same thing. It’s the same thing. It’s like, you feel good about your weight, but then there’s something else you thought it was going to make your life so much better. So I’m sorry we keep- I keep going.

Jeff 37:02
Well, I just want to go the last thing. I want to- the next part I really would like to tell, because it’s kind of good news for everybody.

Doreen 37:09
What?

Jeff 37:10
That to be in a successful marriage or to know whether you’re done or not, it’s good to argue. It’s when you don’t ever argue, because-

Doreen 37:24
Now you just went into a whole other subject. We’re gonna have to do that.

Jeff 37:28
Is that another, another episode?

Doreen 37:30
Why don’t we do that in the next podcast?

Jeff 37:33
Okay.

Doreen 37:33
This is 160 what? Eight?

Jeff 37:35
This is 167.

Doreen 37:37
We’re gonna make 168 about arguing.

Jeff 37:39
Part two.

Doreen 37:39
The good and the bad of it. The bad of it and how did- how to do it. With respect and kindness. But yeah.

Jeff 37:48
Okay, that’s a great idea.

Doreen 37:50
Yeah, so let’s do that. We got our work cut out for us. Okay, we got to get that one ready.

Jeff 37:55
Let’s go practice.

Doreen 37:56
Okay.

Jeff 37:59
Anyway, everybody, have an amazing week, and we’ll see you next week, bye.

Doreen 38:02
Bye.

Jeff 38:12
You have the vision of what you want your life to look like after divorce, but maybe you just don’t know how to get there. So if you’re ready to take control of your life and want to find out more about our coaching. Visit us at LAD-coaching.com that’s LAD as in LAD-coaching.com

Doreen 38:34
Until next time, have an amazing rest of your day and remember, yes, you can-

Doreen & Jeff 38:40
Have an amazing life after divorce.