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Divorce
Hello, everybody out there. Today we’re going to talk about how to use your divorce as a catalyst for personal transformation. So if you’re ready, let’s get started. Hey, Jeff.
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Jeff
Hello, Doreen. How are you?
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Doreen
I’m fantastic.
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Jeff
That’s pretty good.
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Doreen
Yeah. How are.
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Jeff
You? Doing fantastic as well. You look amazing. Oh, you’re so sweet. Just in case anybody knows out there, we’re sitting across from each other, staring at each other, and, Wow.
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Doreen
Oh, you’re so sweet after all this time.
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Jeff
Yes. Well, it gets getting better.
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Doreen
So everything is going pretty well.
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Jeff
Right? You mean in, life and life in general?
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Doreen
Yeah, life. I mean, you.
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Jeff
Just came back from a great trip to North Carolina with the family. It was such a great time, spending time with the kids and their significant others and, camping and hiking and camping and camping, but, you know, glamping.
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Doreen
I would call it. Yeah.
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Jeff
Cabin, cabin ING.
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Doreen
Cabin in the.
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Jeff
Cabin is.
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Doreen
Happening.
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Jeff
But the, the trails, the hiking, the Mother Nature, it’s.
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Doreen
Beautiful.
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Jeff
Beautiful up.
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Doreen
There. And it’s really beautiful to be in the Blue Ridge Mountains. Yeah. We love going to blowing Rock every year. It’s our family kind of 4th of July getaway where we can, our adult kids can come join us. We kind of mandate it. I hope it continues. But anyhow, yes, it was a great time. I hope everybody is enjoying, their summers as well.
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Jeff
Exactly.
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Doreen
So I want to talk about a couple things. And this episode, this topic of basically using your divorce as a catalyst for personal transformation came as a result of a invitation only. I’m going to call it my private coaching group that I do every month for people that, I have had contact with, usually clients and who I think will benefit from coaching.
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Doreen
It’s something I do as a give back and, I really enjoy doing it. So when I was writing up my outline for the coaching, first month this month, at the end of the month, we talked about this, meaning I, wanted to really start with, how do we look at our divorce, right? How how are we looking at it?
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Doreen
Are we looking at it as all the negatives that we typically think about in here? Right. Divorce is not a word that people, you know, think of things that are positive, right?
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Jeff
It’s like taxes.
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Doreen
It’s like taxes, right? It’s like taxes. It’s it’s not good. You’re supposed to feel negative emotions when you’re going through a divorce. That’s absolutely expected and normal. But how do we use it to now start to gently move in a direction of acceptance, and now using it to really jumpstart our new life, our next chapter, our best new chapter, right?
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Doreen
I think most of the listeners, if they really want to be honest with themselves, even though they’re going through divorce, went through a divorce, probably understand why. Meaning the relationship the marriage was likely in trouble, had issues. Things were not changing. Things were not acceptable. Maybe there was infidelity or other issues going on and it was time to say goodbye.
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Doreen
Maybe some of the listeners worked on their relationship, went to therapy, did the things, but it happened, right? It was either stay in a relationship in a marriage that wasn’t serving you. Maybe you were not even your best self, right? You were acting in ways that you were really not proud of when you were in a trying relationship.
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Doreen
That tends to happen. We yell, we scream, we get angry, we get disappointed, and we react. And so acceptance of the divorce is being it is what it was. But also understanding that probably needed to happen. Maybe.
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Jeff
Right. Maybe. And there was also probably if they look hard enough, there is probably some good times, probably something positive out of the marriage as well.
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Doreen
Oh of course there’s always positive. There’s always not. Probably. I think that there always is. You had children together. You had many good years together. You obviously were in love at one point. You probably, if you really sat there, could you really think of those things? Not that you want to, but you probably should, because one of the exercises that I’ll be doing with my private coaching group is retelling your story about your divorce.
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Doreen
Now, I’ve discussed this before, episode number 38 and 99. So if you want to go back and listen to those, it probably would be a good place to start because I talk about this. Why? Because it’s so important. Why am I bringing it up to today? Because it is important. So what are your thoughts?
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Jeff
Well, I think that, when you interpret an event, let’s say divorce or or something from your childhood.
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Doreen
That’s negative.
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Jeff
Yeah, it might be based on limited or biased viewpoints, and they may not be just something that you have a viewpoint of yourself. It may come from other people as well.
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Doreen
Yeah.
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Jeff
And rewriting those allows you to revisit the experiences with, different wisdoms and perspectives gained from your maturity.
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Doreen
I yeah, I think you’re square on there, Jeff, because I think that a lot of the negative thought processes around divorce stem from society’s general thoughts, as opposed to maybe your own. I think what you’re saying personal situation, facts, relationship and your own thoughts about divorce. Right. You may be saying it’s negative and have this thought and a story about it because of religious beliefs, family beliefs.
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Doreen
Maybe nobody in your family has been divorced. Maybe you hold certain strong moral beliefs about divorce in general. Maybe you have friends that frown upon it. Like there’s a lot of influences right? I personally talking about the personal side of it, looking at my divorce, wasn’t happy about my divorce way back when, but I also realized that there was a choice to be made stay in the relationship, grin and bear it, or permit my ex and I to move on and be better humans and better which we were in our co-parenting and our relationship with each other because we didn’t have that romantic relationship anymore.
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Doreen
It was like, okay, you are the father, I am the mother. We are going to co-parent. So that was great. But yeah, retelling the story is, I think one of the first things that needs to happen or should happen.
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Jeff
Well, taking a good look at yourself gives you a chance to to dive deeper into your experiences and acknowledge the facts and uncover lessons that you’ve learned from the situation, whether it’s your divorce or whatever it is, you’ve obviously learned something and you’re able to change or readjust your experiences.
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Doreen
No question. You know, and I think some people, at least, that I’ve dealt with in as a lawyer, divorce lawyer, but also, or I should say family lawyer, but also because we do more than just divorce cases. Right? Right. Also accepting likely some responsibility. Right. Exactly. In the breakdown, the marriage is hard for many of us to do, but and it’s hard to self examine, right.
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Doreen
And say, you know what? Maybe I did contribute.
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Jeff
Maybe. Yeah. But you know what that allows you to do. It allows you to move away from that victim mentality. Tality.
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Doreen
Yeah.
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Jeff
And allows you to recognize your role in things and, and in shaping your future path.
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Doreen
And and acceptance and forgiveness.
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Jeff
Yeah. Well, that’s going to be a big thing. It might be forgiveness for yourself.
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Doreen
100%. I think there’s a lot of negative self-talk when it comes to divorce. You know, I should have made it work. I could have done this. I chose the wrong person. All the things we have children together, like all that negative self-talk.
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Jeff
Or being the one that was, unfaithful.
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Doreen
I exactly the one that maybe was the, as I say, the straw that broke the camel’s back, that one episode that everybody that one’s facts situation or whatever it is that kind of like everybody wants to hold on to, right? Like if it was someone was unfaithful. They’re like, well, that’s the reason we got divorced. Maybe that’s the straw that broke the marriage finally.
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Doreen
But it if you really do some self-reflection, likely there’s there’s both parties are one.
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Jeff
Hundred 100 reasons they give you that one reason.
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Doreen
Exactly that led up to that right. Not that it’s forgiving the situation, but it’s acceptance of your own personal responsibility. So when I do an exercise with, people in coaching and sometimes I do it with my divorce clients, I ask them to tell me about their situation, to tell me about what what happened, what’s going on. And I don’t try to lead them in any direction.
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Doreen
I just let them talk. And when you’ve done that before, when you’ve coached.
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Jeff
Me.
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Doreen
Absolutely right. And people in general, so they say, meaning the experts, we tend to focus in on negative. And it might stem from some protection mechanisms if we were to study it. How to protect yourself. You’re focused in on negative things situations so that you can protect yourself from that. Right. Things go well. You don’t think about, oh, let me focus in on the, well, the great things.
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Doreen
And so when I let people just go and talk to me, you know, just randomly speak a lot of time, there’s a lot of negative, you know, much of the conversation is about what the person did, the negative situations, whether it’s past current, what they’re dealing with or even into the future. I can’t have, I can’t do who wants somebody who has kids?
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Doreen
I’ll never find anybody in the future. It’s negative thought past, current future or present future.
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Jeff
I know we’re not talking about it this episode, but I think you hit it right on the head the other night when you talked about how active is your permanent brain? And I think when you have is active in the brain is very quickly goes to the negative.
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Doreen
Absolutely. Because it’s there to protect you and.
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Jeff
It stays there. It protects you, right?
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Doreen
You’re permanent brain. Is that part of your brain that wants to avoid pain and suffering, right. It wants to find reasons not to do or accept something.
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Jeff
And it’s usually blame.
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Doreen
Right. So we were not to divest into a different topic or as I say, go into the weeds.
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Jeff
But I promise we’ll do this subject another week.
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Doreen
Right? We were talking about at dinner yesterday, actually, Jeff and I were talking about how active is your primitive brain, how active are you to go quickly to the negative as opposed to the positive. And some of us have, without judgment, a more negative pre primitive brain? They automatically jump to the negative or they automatically decide not to do something because they have a million excuses and many times a primitive brain is super convincing.
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Jeff
Oh, they justify it. Yes, 100%.
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Doreen
I’m not going to finish, you know, sending out my resume today because the kids are sick and, you know, I have to I have to focus in on them. And I can’t go to the gym today because I have so much to do. And I can’t finish cleaning up this because I’ll just do it later. And, you know, these are just simple examples.
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Doreen
So, you know, be in touch with your primitive brain. What is it telling you? Where does it tend to focus in on? Now? When we were having this discussion, we were I was suggesting that Jeff had a more active, primitive brain than I did, that my brain functions in the primitive brain realm, but it also focuses very much on the prefrontal cortex, which is what should I do?
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Doreen
I’m extremely structured, detailed, organized, all the things. But that also is a problem because I’m so prefrontal that I tend not to be present enjoying the moment in the current space, because I’m always thinking about what should I be doing to reach whatever goal it is. Pick a number of them.
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Jeff
I really think that a lot of times we talk about the primitive brain as being a negative, and sometimes the primitive brain can be a positive in something that.
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Doreen
Protect.
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Jeff
You and protect you. Right. And do you well.
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Doreen
So knowing what your thoughts are, you know, when we teach coaching, it’s all about our circumstance. Something happens. It’s a fact. There’s a thought about it. There’s a feeling that stems from that thought. Then there’s an action or an and an action and a result. So I tend to go to the result line all the time and I want to get there, but then I’m not enjoying the current moment.
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Doreen
So something else, I think it would be a good discussion for our next episode. Why don’t we do that?
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Jeff
Yeah, but I think getting back to this episode, what I think you’re saying is the.
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Doreen
Catalysts.
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Jeff
Of your very good, talent. No catching yourself the awareness part of it, of of telling what story you’re telling. And you’re very good at being aware of what you’re doing so that the that’s why you’re. I don’t say so successful or so well rounded because you’ve catch yourself a lot saying I’m too much into my prefrontal, and I need a little bit more of my.
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Doreen
I, honestly, that is a work in progress.
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Jeff
Right?
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Doreen
I mean, I have purposely prefrontal, taken up yoga, taking up meditation, taking up breathing techniques, gone to Art of living, in Boone, which is, you can look it up, but it has to do with all these kind of mindsets and really tried to focus in on that to help me to be more present and not just focused on the goal, the goal, the goal, the goal.
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Doreen
Yeah, I’ve been successful if you look on paper and facts, probably, but that doesn’t mean I’m living a happy, happier life as a result. Because really, what do we have? We have today, this very moment we don’t have yesterday is gone and we don’t have tomorrow. It’s just a thought we have right now. And I know that’s easy to say, and it’s like a cliche, but how real is it?
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Doreen
It’s real. Right.
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Jeff
Well, that’s the story that we’re talking about telling.
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Doreen
Right. And the catalyst today, the topic is the kick in the tush that divorce can provide to you did provide to me, provided to Jeff as well when he went through his divorce to now make a decision to wake up and to really start to design a purposeful life, using it as that push, seeing it as a somewhat positive okay, this is the reality.
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Doreen
I’m dealing with the divorce. If you were forced into it, meaning the other side wanted it, you didn’t want it there. Ya. If you wanted it now you’ve got the guilt. You got to deal with all that.
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Jeff
So how so? There. Well, you’re there you are also.
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Doreen
So it’s right. So telling the story of your divorce is important because you got to start somewhere to use the divorce as your catalyst. So why not start there? Yeah. We tell your story.
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Jeff
I think the way to start is to become aware of your narratives. You know, become the awareness is key to understand what you are saying to yourself, what story are you telling right now?
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Doreen
100%. And telling the world and telling your children, you know what I’m saying? Because it’s not just the negative thoughts that are in your brain. It’s how are you reacting to that negative thought? What is the feeling from the negative thoughts that you’re having about your divorce? Anger, sadness, overwhelm, these types of things. And then how are you reacting when you think that way?
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Doreen
Are you yelling at your kids more than you should? Are you not taking care of yourself? Are you buffering? For example, drinking, eating too much? Are you unable to get out of bed now? Not suggesting that if you have some serious emotional concerns, you have to should go. Please seek professional help from a qualified therapist who can help you.
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Doreen
I’m talking about if you are okay, you know you’re just dealing with a divorce. It’s hard, it’s tough. It’s got all those negative things going on with it, for sure. But now changing your story a little bit, you can’t just jump from this is the most horrible thing that ever happened to me too. This is great. Like yay, yay, divorce.
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Doreen
No, that’s not going to happen. But you can gently start to realize what.
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Jeff
Well, you want a question. You’re the validity is is the story that you’re telling really your story? Well it is it does it empower you?
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Doreen
Does it serve?
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Jeff
Does it limit you well?
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Doreen
Does it serve you good? Serve your thinking? Pick a thought a negative thought. Just we haven’t scripted this. Just pick a negative thought that somebody might have as a result of their divorce.
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Doreen
I have one, but you have any.
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Jeff
I can’t stand her.
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Doreen
Okay. So I can’t stand her. Okay. Is a thought. Maybe it came from. Let’s take it forward with a with a model, what we call our model. Maybe the thought came from what fact?
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Jeff
She cheated on me.
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Doreen
Okay. And let’s say that’s a fact. Okay? We know that. She admitted it. She admitted she in it. And the thought is, I can’t stand her. Right. Okay. Now, let’s assume further we can for this hypothetical that they have children together.
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Jeff
Okay?
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Doreen
Okay. Now, what do you think the feeling might be from the thought? I can’t stand her.
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Jeff
Well, it’s going to be anger.
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Doreen
Okay.
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Jeff
And then little maybe a little sadness.
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Doreen
Okay. But let’s just go with anger. Anger. Okay. Now what action might someone take when they have the thought? I can’t stand her. They have a feeling of anger. The emotion is anger. What action might they take?
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Jeff
Let’s say I take it out on the children.
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Doreen
Yeah. And so what result do you have?
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Jeff
So I am distancing my relationship with my kids.
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Doreen
Correct. You may be thinking that your you’re justified. Justified, but the end result is that your relationship from the thought. I can’t stand her may be the result. Coming of your now got your children in a situation where they’re having to deal with an unhappy parent who’s lashing out. Not not
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Jeff
Who is it really hurting? Who am I really hurting? But myself?
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Doreen
You’re hurting yourself or you’re hurting your children, obviously. But you’re also hurting yourself. But you’re also hurting, you know, all kinds of things. Like, for example, you know, there’s all kinds of studies, and everyone can Google it and search it and whatever, you know, forum you like. But about how you react as a parent to your divorce and to your co-parent is something children pick up on.
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Doreen
And it can what you do and how that comes about, what that looks like could affect your children into their relationships as adults, into how they deal with their children. I mean, it becomes a cycle, right? Right. Another thought that I had, if we were using a hypothetical, was I’ll never find somebody, I’ll never find somebody, right.
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Doreen
Well, when you have the thought, I’ll never find someone. Usually. Maybe a feeling from that might be sadness.
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Jeff
Loneliness.
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Doreen
Right? Right. Loneliness. Okay. Loneliness. And when you feel sad or lonely and you’re having a thought, I’ll never find somebody. What do you.
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Jeff
Do? You stay at home and don’t find somebody.
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Doreen
Hello. And so the end result is, if you ain’t getting out there, I can promise you one thing.
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Jeff
You’re not going to knock.
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Doreen
You’re not going to show up at the door with a bunch of flowers saying, here I am, here’s Prince Charming or Princess.
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Jeff
Let’s. He’s your plumber. And you came. I had called them for repair.
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Doreen
Well, that would be highly unlikely, right? But. Right. Not that it couldn’t happen. Right. So this is what we’re saying. So when you start to gently move from the negative and start just looking at what is positive from the divorce. So let’s name some things that might be positive that people can consider and try on for size. These are again, just hypotheticals, things we’ve heard, things we’ve done in coaching, sessions with kids.
00;22;15;13 – 00;22;32;09
Jeff
Oh, I know that. A big one is now I’m free to do whatever I want to do without being held back and or having limited correct. Maybe start a new career or a new business, or just trying a new sport, or just doing what I want to do without being governed.
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Doreen
Focus is on you. Yeah, right. That’s a positive. You don’t have to take into consideration your ex. One that comes to mind for me is so simple. Is like, I just get to come home and do what I want at night and just, you know, for example, watch whatever series you’re interested in without somebody else chiming in.
00;22;56;18 – 00;23;00;20
Jeff
I have one. What I can do the dishes when I want to.
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Doreen
I can do the chores when I want to. I can leave the house is messy as I want to. Sure. Why not?
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Jeff
You’re out. Your prerogative.
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Doreen
So what I recommend for our listeners is write down all the negatives in your journal. I hope that you are considering journaling, but write them down. Write down all the negative thoughts, and then when you think you’re done, put it down and then write all the negative thoughts again, and then go back. And I ask you, for every single negative thought you write, you wrote.
00;23;31;04 – 00;23;36;25
Doreen
Try to write at least one positive. So if you wrote ten negative, write ten positive.
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Jeff
I like the exercise that is in your monthly meeting where you think back, oh yes, that is a great exercise.
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Doreen
We’ll go ahead and explain that. So so that’s one thing we would encourage you to do. So let’s talk about this other.
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Jeff
Go back and and let’s say think of a relationship that you were in a girlfriend or a boyfriend and you broke up and you’re you were heartbroken, devastated. You’ll never find another girlfriend like that one. And life is over, right? Look into the future. What what.
00;24;13;15 – 00;24;14;02
Doreen
Happened?
00;24;14;02 – 00;24;27;25
Jeff
What happened? Right. Okay. You end up getting over it. You got past that person, you moved on to somebody else, and you fell in love again, right? It could be the same situation that you’re in, right?
00;24;27;27 – 00;24;28;26
Doreen
Well, it will be.
00;24;28;27 – 00;24;29;16
Jeff
It will be.
00;24;29;17 – 00;24;37;21
Doreen
It will be. You will heal. You know, all of these coaching tools that we talk about, all this work is just going to get you there sooner.
00;24;37;21 – 00;24;49;05
Jeff
Yeah. And the reason I say it could be is because I want you to open up your mind to a different thought, right. To to to a what what would be or what could be right.
00;24;49;05 – 00;24;56;26
Doreen
And if you got over that relationship that broke your heart. I don’t care if it was when you were an adolescent, you know, your first love. Most of us, if you are.
00;24;56;26 – 00;24;57;16
Jeff
The same.
00;24;57;16 – 00;25;13;28
Doreen
The feelings are the same. And you thought, oh my God, I’m never going to, I’m never going to have somebody again in my life. This is devastating. Like, and then what happened? You found other people. You will be there again. And I think that that’s a good exercise. Yeah, I do that. I’m going to be doing that with my coaching people this month.
00;25;14;00 – 00;25;15;25
Doreen
So that’s it.
00;25;15;26 – 00;25;29;13
Jeff
Well, it’s just again, a new narrative is empowering you to empower yourself to have control over yourself. And when you do it, the, the opportunities are endless.
00;25;29;15 – 00;25;42;22
Doreen
Well and true. And when you have a positive thought that you believe, okay. And I know that you some of you are struggling to have positive thoughts about the divorce, about your ex, about the situation.
00;25;42;23 – 00;25;44;00
Jeff
That’s normal. By the way.
00;25;44;00 – 00;25;44;14
Doreen
Of course.
00;25;44;14 – 00;25;45;11
Jeff
Don’t be hard on yourself.
00;25;45;11 – 00;26;04;18
Doreen
No no no no no. You have to be kind and loving to yourself first before anything. But, when you start to have and gently shift to those positives, then you’ll see that when you truly start to read it and reread the positive. So after you write the negatives, write the positives. Now look at them on a daily basis.
00;26;04;18 – 00;26;19;19
Doreen
Literally takes one minute and then just go through your day. You’re going to probably come from a place of an emotion, a feeling from the positive that will fuel you with a better happy emotion, a good emotion.
00;26;19;19 – 00;26;21;14
Jeff
A better relationship with yourself for.
00;26;21;15 – 00;26;45;28
Doreen
A good emotion that then fuels a better activity. For example, I might find somebody again. Maybe it’s not. I’m going to, but maybe it’s just I might just that might just that maybe. Okay, the maybe is enough maybe to get out of bed, get yourself cleaned up and start to get out there and mingle, or at least get out and see what’s out there in the world, right?
00;26;45;28 – 00;26;46;21
Doreen
Not staying home.
00;26;46;21 – 00;26;48;01
Jeff
Change your what ifs.
00;26;48;04 – 00;26;49;23
Doreen
Change your what ifs. What do you mean by that?
00;26;49;24 – 00;26;54;06
Jeff
Well, it could be. What if I do go out? What if I do meet somebody? What if I do? What if I do?
00;26;54;06 – 00;27;26;07
Doreen
Yeah, I do. That exercise of my clients too, is when they tell me something negative, I’m like, okay, I hear you not jumping in the pool with you on this, right? But tell me two positives. You gave me a negative. Now give me two positives about the situation. Right. And yeah sometimes it takes time to get there. But I’m like do do do just waiting because it can be as little as something somewhat, you know, innocuous or like, I get to watch my series that I always wanted to watch that he hated kind of thing.
00;27;26;09 – 00;27;43;24
Doreen
Okay, so that’s today’s episode, using the divorce as a catalyst to jumpstart, to push you, to create this amazing new chapter in your life that you truly have the ability to design, to be any thing you want it to be.
00;27;44;01 – 00;27;46;05
Jeff
That’s right. Tell your story. It’s your.
00;27;46;05 – 00;27;58;29
Doreen
Book. It’s your book. Write the book that you want to leave as your memoir. Write it and then just go out and what make it happen?
00;27;58;29 – 00;27;59;19
Jeff
Make it happen.
00;27;59;22 – 00;28;12;09
Doreen
All right, everybody, bye bye. Have a beautiful, amazing day. And remember, be kind to yourself and know that you too can have an amazing life after divorce. Talk to you.
00;28;12;09 – 00;28;14;09
Jeff
Soon. Bye bye.
