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Ep. 24 – It’s not the end, it’s the beginning

Transformational Coach Andrea (Andi) Valley and I discuss how to be calm in a cluttered world and looking within for that inner peace.

“Wisdom will always guide us into the direction of peace”.

Transcript

What if I told you that your divorce could end up being one of the best things that could happen to you? I’m Doreen, Yaa, marital, and family, lawyer, and certified life coach. I’ve been coaching and consulting women for over 26 years. I’ve seen it all. Now. I’m sharing my expertise and my own personal experiences to help you turn a difficult time.

Your amazing divorce. Hey everybody. How are you today? Hope you’re having a great beginning of January. It’s a new year, new beginnings and new, amazing things for you. So you are in for such a special treat today. I have Andrea Elli here and she is a transformational coach and the co-founder. Shift happens.

Global. She’s been heard on numerous radio outlets and was a weekly contributor and mindset expert on rise and live with Roby. And what is it? Suze SU yeah, Susie and the CBS morning news and west Palm beach, Florida. Over the past five years, Andy and her husband Lee are the creators of transformational training programs.

For students and teachers and teams, their programs address the importance of clarity of mine resilience and how to live with less anxiety and more access to our own inner GPS as a result product. Activity increases relationships improve and overall performance is naturally enhanced with their knowledge.

Now, after I get into all this, oh boy, did I have a fun time getting on zoom today? okay. Let’s just say that technology is not my strong point. Although I am learning. Because I believe that trying challenging things is super important. So while technology is somewhat scary to me at times, I have to say and give myself a big pat in the back because I have come a long way, but this morning, not so much.

So, Andy, thank you so much for being patient with me. How welcome. My pleasure. Thank you. It’s so good to see you. Oh my gosh. So good to see you. How are you doing this new year? Wonderful, wonderful. And I totally get it with technology. It’s not fun. We didn’t grow up that way. However, it’s what’s happening so we can either jump on the bandwagon or resist it and might as well just jump on the bandwagon.

You know what I mean? Oh, to totally, totally agree. So as you know, I focus in on mostly women. In the middle of divorce and post divorce. Yes. Um, that’s really, um, my go-to people and hopefully most of who I’m listening to, but I always like to say the men’s smart enough to listen, probably listen to my podcast.

Yeah. As well and follow us. But you know, divorce is such a trying time. Um, I’ve been through it. I know you went through your own divorce, so we are talking lady from experience, right? Yes. We have been there, done that, as I say, and you know, it’s hard. It’s difficult. Mm-hmm, stressful. Um, in my teaching as a stressful in my teachings as a life coach, you know, our thoughts create our feelings, create our actions and the results we have in our life or don’t have.

So, you know, my podcast is all about that. Like trying to really find how we control our thoughts, how we look at things and how to think differently to create the results that we want in our. Hmm. And I know that you, I always say life coaches, transformational coaches, yogis, they all teach the same concepts just in different ways.

Mm-hmm yeah. You know, so. The theme we came up with and I thank you so much for sharing your notes with me was it’s not the end. It’s the beginning. Yes. All right. So let’s get into it. Tell us about you and about that and let’s get going. Yeah, well, what it looks like to me is that every moment we have an opportunity to see the world, um, from a different view, um, we, we get, I think it’s.

50 million impressions per second, that are available to us and we take in 40. So when I look at that, I it’s, it’s just common sense to know that there is so much to see. And when we’re in a stress state of mind, our bandwidth is limited. That’s goes for everybody on the planet. But when I remember that, wait a second, I’m seeing such a small.

Tiny minute, little portion of life, because that’s how I’m made. You know, I’m not gonna suddenly, no matter how smart we get, or, you know, how many gurus we study with, we’re not gonna suddenly, you know, be able to see more than, than what our minds can handle. However, The more that we have a deeper understanding of where our experience comes from.

Um, the less stressful it is. And, and as you know, as you said in the beginning, our experience comes from thought in the moment. And if our thinking is so focused on what we don’t want, and if it’s in a fearful state and you know, when we’re experiencing fear, we’re in a low state of mind, our bandwidth is shrunken.

We’re not going to feel good, but the good news is, is that it’s all temporary. You know, even our moods are temporary. Um, our life experience is temporary. I think the more that we just understand, the way that we work as human beings, we can get through even a very, very stressful situation like divorce, and it just is stressful.

Um, but we can experience it with less stress and more engagement in the moment rather than engagement in a very messy, busy. Brain. That’s going to town on things that we don’t like. So when. When someone is in the middle of divorce or even fresh outta divorce, or, you know, everybody gets through the divorce process and the healing process at a different timeframe on a different timeframe.

And I always tell my listeners, don’t compare yourself to someone else. Situation is unique, but for those that are maybe stuck, you know, they, they, they really are feeling that pain. They just can’t seem to move on. They’ve had this major life changing event. They’ve gone from married life and living in this, you know, daily, whatever it is that they were doing routine, et cetera, et cetera, to now becoming a single person having, how do you, how do they even get started?

Well, we, we get started by looking within that’s where all of our answers are. There are no answers outside. Um, we’ll get caught in the maze if we look out there. So, you know, in, in all circumstances, and especially when you’re going through a major life change, the, the focus in order to experience wellbeing is to look within for that.

So, You know of, of course it’s natural. We’re gonna want to do things that bring us joy. However, the more we see that, that joy is our natural state when we have less clutter, um, we’ll, we’ll learn how to be in a cluttered world, in a calm state of mind. So the work, and I say that with air quotes, because it’s not really work it’s, it’s more of an uncovering is in.

Looking within for that piece. And, and that happens when we slow down, it happens when we slow down, cuz we’re so busy. Right. And especially going through divorce, there’s so much wondering what’s my life gonna look like, you know? Right. What’s what’s next for me. That’s can be, we can get into some scary thinking with that.

Um, and I, I, I am so sure. That the answers come from within us rather than outside of us. So, so to me, that’s the first step is really taking time to quiet the mind so that we can hear our wisdom, which, you know, wisdom will always guide us in the direction of peace, because that’s what it’s made of. When you say, when you talk about like slowing down the mind, mm-hmm , um, two things come to my mind, um, and maybe to our listener’s mind is one.

How, like what techniques can we use to slow our mind down? And when we do slow our mind down, what should we be doing then? Okay. So I’m, I’m always hesitant to give a technique because we don’t need a technique to experience who we really are. Oh, however. . Yeah, no, that’s great stuff. However, um, is it helpful if there is something that, um, is helpful for us?

Yeah, so, but I think the key to that is knowing that that slowing down is not coming from the event. It’s a product of the event. So, so in slowing down, you know, it might be taking a walk without your headset. in the morning, you know, it might be, we’re so fortunate that we live by the beach. Yes. It might be just going to the beach.

Um, it, it could be sitting in meditation and you can start with one minute, just set your, you know, people say I can’t meditate. My mind’s too busy. You can, you can. So just set your, your timer for one minute and just breathe. Just focus on that in and out breath. Um, There’s so many different ways. When, when do you recommend that?

We do that? Like, are there certain, you know what I’m saying? Like you’re every day you’re so stressed, you just got through the divorce, like you said, there’s so much going on. Maybe you’re moving, you’re putting your child into a new school. You’re dealing with all these different. When do you. Take a, I’m gonna call it like taking a time out and regroup it.

Yeah, right. Yeah. Just like, remember when we had little kids we used to put them in time out. Yeah. We have to do that for ourself, but, well, first of all, first thing in the morning is great because you’re still sort of in that sort of, um, Very quiet state of mind. So you’re not really up yet. And I, I think it’s really helpful to take advantage of that natural piece that we feel in the morning.

Right. Um, but any time, you know, a lot of times be as soon as I get on a, a call with a client, the first thing we do is just breathe. and just breathe right into our heart. You know, just imagine feeling as though we could breathe right into our heart. Kind of like you did with me this morning. Yes. When I got on the zoom and my audio wasn’t working yeah.

And I saw you TA I literally saw you cuz I can see you. I know we’re recording this, but I can see you and you literally took a breath. Yeah. And when you took a breath, it prompted me to take a. Because I was like, oh my gosh, you know, I have her on, and this is your, you know, I’m so thankful you’re here and I’m very, very appreciative of your time.

And, but I did, I took a breath and, and we worked through it, you know, um, which it could have gone another way. Right? Sure. easily, but just as a prime example, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We, we forget that we have this natural capacity to settle down. It’s built into our system and we forget that. Um, so the, the first thing is, is just to find that time for yourself.

We live such busy lives and we’ve got so much crazy influence with the phone and, and the iWatch and the iPad and the TV. I mean, it’s so overwhelming. Yeah. And, and it’s designed. To keep our minds busy. It’s not designed to help us calm down. It’s designed to take us away from who we are, rather than experience more of who we are.

So we it’s important that we make an effort towards nourishing our own wellbeing, and we don’t have to go to Costa Rica to do it, although that’s very nice. Um, we can do that just by taking some time. And like I said, it doesn’t have to be a lot of time, you know? Can carve out 20 minutes for yourself in the morning, just to put your little sneakers on and take a walk outside in nature.

That’s enough without the EarPods, right? Yes, absolutely away technology. Although they should listen to my podcast while they’re walking, but absolutely they can listen in their car while they’re driving. Right. but yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s just so important to get back in touch with this natural piece.

That’s always here, no matter what events are occurring in our life, there is this natural, peaceful state that we just get further and further and further and further away from as our mind gets busier and busier and more cluttered and more cluttered. We don’t know that that’s here for us. So, so the beginning is just spending some time with a quiet.

Mind, and then wisdom will tell you, go to yoga. Wisdom will tell you, go take a salsa class. Wisdom will tell you, go take a walk, you know, whatever it is, it’s gonna be just like you said, everybody handles the situation differently. Right? Whatever works for, you know, everybody it’s, it’s different. Some people resonate.

Differently with different things. Some people like to ride bikes, some people like to swim, you know, it, it really doesn’t matter. It’s it’s whatever works for you. And that’s why I said I can’t give a technique because, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, we’re giving a technique to experience what we already are.

It’s kind of silly when we actually look at it. However, like I said, if it’s helpful. Um, but, but remember here’s, here’s, what’s so important to remember if you do use a technique, remember that it was not the technique. That brought you peace. It was your peace was uncovered. And if that was the vehicle to get there.

Fantastic. But that peace is always within you always, always, always. Now, what are the benefits just to get when, when you’re able to calm down the mind, your thoughts, and just really give yourself a time out. Yeah. And especially after divorce. What does that do for us? Like, yeah. What’s the benefit. Yeah.

Clarity, clarity, clarity. Yeah. You know, it’s interesting. I was with a friend this weekend and she it’s it’s, it’s an example,

like a big, our zoom. Will you say that again? Our zoom went a little. uh, the, my friend was deciding whether or not she was gonna make a big purchase on something and she was vacillating back and forth, back and forth. And she asked me what I thought. And she was looking for me to give her an answer on selection, a or selection B.

And it’s a big financial, um, decision. And I said, how about you make no decision, right? Yeah. How about you just go home and just take a time out on it. Yeah. And the answer will come to you. Yeah. Don’t force it. That’s it, you know? Yeah. I think so many times we’re trying, especially in divorce to get from this place of not feeling good, to jump to amazing and not giving ourselves permission to really have clarity on where we wanna go.

They’ll just, you know, we just jump into some other, um, event or focus, you know? Yeah. Yeah, that’s it. And then we’re just sort of replacing, you know, we’re, we’re putting a mask on, you know, we’re replacing one with the other, rather than seeing that, what we’re trying to replace. We’re the ones that are making it up anyway.

You know, that, that was like a big, huge aha for me, it’s like, oh wait, I’m the one who’s making up that this isn’t okay. How it is, you know? Right. So why am I trying to replace. So no from go ahead. No, no, no, go ahead. I’m sorry. I was, I was just gonna say from a clear space. Yes. If there is something to do it, it will be the next logical step.

But just like you said, and I love what you told your friend you’re, you’re so calming Doreen, and that’s just, that was the best. You, you couldn’t have been a better friend to her, but just like you said, you know, if, if we don’t know. be okay with not knowing that’s because there isn’t an answer in the moment, right?

The answer is what you said. Don’t do anything. Exactly. And, and I think honestly, when you slow down the brain and you let yourself think the answers really do come, the universe takes care of us in such amazing ways. Always, um, but we do tend, or many of us tend to replace one thing for another. Sure. Um, you know, and, and thinking, oh, well I should go do this because society wants me to, or this is, you know, whatever it is my mother told me to, I don’t know.

And, and you know, and there’s something not right about it, you know? And, and you need to listen to yourself. Yeah. So how do you let go of the fear? You know of, maybe some of our listeners are ready to get into new relationships or ready to start a new career. How do you let go of the fear that goes along with that after divorce?

Well, I think it’s so common to be afraid because, you know, you might have, since some people get divorced and they, they had a wonderful experience, it was just time, you know, they, people grow apart. So, but other people get divorced and they had something that really jolted them, that, that created a fear of a new relationship.

And if, if we walk into the world with those walls up already, um, We won’t be able to see what’s right in front of us. Mm. You know, we, we will miss what’s right in front of us if we already put up walls. And, and I know it’s scary because we think, well, I’ve been hurt and I don’t wanna go through that again, but that the thought of that will create more chaos for you than a new relationship.

Wow. You know, and we’re prime examples of. What life can be after divorce. I mean, both of us have remarried. Yes. And both of us, um, will speak for myself, but I know you are as well are very happy. Yes. We’ve found these very special men in our life. Yes. And I don’t think neither one of us because you and I have talked about this, we’re looking for it.

Right. In other words, it just happened. Yes. And if we would’ve had that wall. If we would’ve been closed to the thought, the idea, the universe, bringing these men, these beautiful men to us. Yes. Yeah. Um, we would’ve missed the opportunity of where we are today. That’s right. That’s right. And I know your story, you know, you, you wouldn’t have been friendly.

You would’ve been, you were having lunch. I know. I remember. Yes. Yes. So you would have just stayed with you and your meal. Stuck in my, of course, stuck in, stuck in my, uh, device. Yeah. You know, not looking or seeing what else was out there. Right. And you might have said hello out of being a kind nice person, but that would’ve been it exactly.

That would’ve been it. And I’m getting the chills as you were like. I’m so getting the chills, it’s amazing as you, as we’re talking about this and it’s the same with me, what did I do? I went to work, you know what I mean? Like you do that day. That was it. Exactly like, that was all I did. But, you know, again, it’s, it’s the same thing.

If I was a, just a closed off person, we would not have had, you know, we we’d have nothing would’ve been able to have been built because the energy I would’ve given off was a very closed energy. So, you know, a again, just like you said, see life takes care of life. Mm, it’s hands off the wheel. You know, it’s, it’s our monkey minds, our personalities, you know, our, our egos wanna get in the way and, and, you know, that’s all past conditioning and all the rules that we make up and everything else.

And when we just spend more time in life being present and open, you know, all things are possible. So I think for someone that’s coming out of a relationship again, I’ll go back to what I said in the beginning was the more that we focus on our own wellbeing and our own whole. Without conditions on the world or other people.

Right, right. Things fall into place. I think that, you know, for me, I mean, I’ll talk about myself, which I share with my listeners often is that I, you know, I’m a bit of a control person. and I have worked really hard at letting go and letting and breathing into it and not forcing. Decisions to be made that I know aren’t right for me, like something’s off mm-hmm and also to permit other people to, to help, you know, and to, especially through divorce and especially through life changing events.

You know, if, if some of these, some of my listeners are like me and you just wanna control everything and you don’t need help. And, you know, letting go and just breeding into it and letting people be there for you and opening up the possibilities of who you might get help from or relationships with, with is, has changed my life tremendously, you know, in so many positive ways.

Yeah. So, what about, um, children let’s touch on that and then, you know, like I know a lot of the, a lot of us, a lot of the listeners have children and they’re trying to help them through. Yes. You know, and, and that’s, you know, you, you help you, um, mentor and teach children and work with them as well. Right.

Mm-hmm yes. Yes. So any advice that you have for, for us? Yeah, sure. Um, it. It’s um, a noticing more than more than advice, but what I notice, um, first of all, kids have their own wellbeing. And I think a lot of times we forget that we forget that they’re okay and we make a decision based on our judgements and past conditioning that they need help or that they need guidance.

And. Where we can be super helpful for our kids is to see their health. So I’ll give you a, for instance, I just had a call with a client, um, before this and she’s, she’s sick. Basically. I said to her, why are we having this conversation now? Like, you’re not, you’re not well, like go to bed, but she’s so sweet.

She didn’t wanna cancel her appointment. You know, she just full of integrity. And I was like, oh my goodness, please go rest, go rest. Yes. But anyway, she said to me, are you worried about me? She asked you that. Yeah. Oh, and I said, no, I said, no. I said, you know, what’s most helpful is to me is for me to see your wellbeing.

That you are okay. That you’re experiencing symptoms right now. Yes. But for me to be worried about you, mm-hmm is just going to create more worry and concern for you because you can feel when someone’s worried about you, you don’t feel good when somebody’s worried about you. No, you just start to buy into your story more and, and you just sort of, you know, start to.

go downhill because now, well, they’re worried about me and they’re worried about me. So what happens is exactly what you don’t want becomes bigger and bigger and bigger mm-hmm. So it’s the same with our kids. You know, the more we can nurture their wellbeing, nurture their wisdom, nurture the, the truth.

Mm-hmm that they do have that same wisdom that we have that everyone. They have it too, when we see that they’re okay. Um, they feel that, and it feels so good to have somebody believe in you, right? Yes. Yes. It feels so good to have somebody believe in you. And I remember when I went through my divorce, I had a couple friends say, well, you know, are you gonna take your daughter to therapy and this and that.

And you know, for a moment, I was like, oh my goodness, maybe I should. Right. And then it was like, wait a minute. If I. Tell her something is wrong and you need help. I’m building a story that she hasn’t created. Right. And, um, so I didn’t, I did say to her, you know, if you ever wanna talk to somebody and she had a teacher who she was very close with and, you know, she wanted to talk to that teacher.

I said, great call. The teacher made that happen, easy peasy. However, I never told her that anything was wrong. because I did not want to plant that seed. Remember, kids are resilient. Mm-hmm kids, kids don’t see wrong. Like we see wrong, you know, remember being a kid it’s like when you’re a kid everything’s possible.

Oh yeah. And. And then, but we become conditioned by the world that there’s all these rules and regulations around possibilities. And that becomes our new reality. But kids have the ability to not be all messed up with our contaminated thinking even after divorce. Right. Absolutely. And I will tell you that.

Yes, my daughter’s fine. And she’s been fine. And we’ve seen so many other kids that haven’t been through what she’s been through that aren’t fine. Right? They are fine. Let me just say they are fine. Right. It’s just a matter of uncovering that. But, but what I’m saying was it amazed me that I didn’t make something of the situation, so she didn’t make something of the situation.

Now my situation wasn’t pleasant. It wasn’t easy. Right. As you know, yes. However, I realized it’s not gonna be helpful. to create a story for her that says this is wrong and bad. Mm. So I didn’t. That’s great. So tell me, how do you and your husband Lee work with your clients? like, what do you, what do you have going on?

I’m sure you have some yummy, yummy things going on. Yes. We always have lots of yum because, you know, I like all things yummy. Um, yes, you do. Well, a couple of things I we’ve developed a program for, um, middle school kids and teenagers. and, um, so we’re, we’re doing that right now. We’re working with some private schools.

We’re also in discussion with some school districts and we have a wellness forum for teachers that we are piloting at the moment. So that’s really exciting because there’s a lot of, um, stress right now for teachers. And, um, there’s a lot of STR I mean right now, kids, I believe it’s one in four teenagers are either experiencing anxiety or depression.

It’s one in. Female teenagers and one in five male teenagers. Oh, that’s experiencing either depression or anxiety. The numbers have increased dramatically since COVID. Mm. So we developed, uh, a program it’s an eight lesson program, um, for teens showing them the nature of their wellbeing so that they are not at the mercy of the world because what’s happening in the world.

We can’t control. But if we don’t know that we will be at the mercy of it and we’ll be constantly chasing our tails, thinking that I’ll be happier when you know, and there’s so much influence social media, Instagram, you know, all this stuff. Yes. Yes. You know, our program shows teens. How to not be affected by social media, what’s going on, you know, with their socioeconomic status, what, what their grades are, you know, not that those things aren’t important, but what happens as a result of having more clarity of mind?

And not having so much clutter is their grades go up as a result because they’re not so concerned their mind. Isn’t so busy with being concerned with outside things like social media, like peer pressure, like what’s happening with our parents or our siblings. Sure. So that’s, that’s a really big focus and push for me right now.

So I, I always, I always thought that, um, they should teach some of this. In school and maybe school, isn’t the, you know what I’m saying? Like yeah. What we have learned in our lives as we sit you and I sit here today and we speak, if we knew that when we were teenagers, could you imagine how much pain and suffering we could have avoided?

Because we would’ve had more control over our minds and. Our outcomes and our results. Um, it’s foundational, it’s foundational. It’s foundational. Um, so how do you do, is this by zoom? Is it a zoom? Um, eight weeks. So, so, um, if we work with. People individually. Yes. I do see people in person if they want. Um, but most people we work with are, are on zoom.

And in the schools, the program is built on a platform where we train the teachers on how to use the platform, but it’s a video series, um, that, you know, so that they go through it. There’s a workbook that goes along with it. Uh, there’s a workbook for the teachers. It’s very simple to implement and it’s very turnkey.

So it’s like, here you go. and, and it comes with support materials because we use a lot of symbols. Um, right. So it comes with support materials to remind the kids, you know, throughout the year, you know, we use the term you’re snow. Globbing when you have a busy mind, we use the traffic light system to explain the moods to them.

So it’s filled with things that are really easy to understand. That’s fun. And, um, and we’ve, we’ve piloted the program. We had incredible results. So now it’s, it’s running and we’re really excited about that. So that’s one thing that we’re doing. That’s great. What else are you doing? And just really quick, you know, I’m yeah.

Our listeners can’t see it. This is a compass. Yes. That I keep on my desk and this is my symbol. When my mind gets cluttered. I remember that the direction I wanna go and I keep it here and it, it comes in a beautiful case with a beautiful saying, and it reminds me to slow down. So, what else are you doing and how can our listeners get in touch with you?

So you’re so sweet. We are, um, we’re also doing a program for teachers, a wellness forum for teachers to help them understand this, this same, um, Truth really, cuz we’re just, we’re pointing to. What’s true. And that’s why people get it pretty quickly because it’s natural within them. Um, and people can get in touch with us.

Our website is shift happens.global. Um, so on our website is our email address. So you can find us there. We’re also on Facebook shift happens. We’re on Instagram shift happens global and um, yeah, it’s my email address is Andy a N D. At shift happens.global. And there’s lots of information on our website.

And if you have any questions, you can always email me and I’ll be happy to answer any questions. So, and just to clarify, you do do one on one. We do one-on-ones for, you know, for adults. And we also work with teens and, um, my husband, I don’t know if I told you this D but he just wrote a book. Oh, no. Tell us you tell, he wrote a book on social anxiety.

It’s called, um, social anxiety is BS and it’s belief systems. Oh, I love it. And uncovering the socially distanced self. So it’s uh, yeah, it’s a lot of people suffer from anxiety, social anxiety, especially, and especially. People that you would never think have social anxiety have social anxiety so it’s, it’s really just, you know, getting to the core of your natural wellbeing and showing up in the world with that, rather than stories that, you know, we’ve been carrying around for a long time.

And where do we get a copy of the book? So, well, you can’t yet because it’s okay. The editor, but, uh, it’s, it’s a, it’s a coming soon. So it’s well, we are gonna, we are gonna look for it and I’m gonna read it and, uh, we’re gonna talk about it circle back on out, bring Leon if he’s available, that would, he would love it.

Yeah, he would love it. Well, listen, you are one of my favorite people. Every time I talk to you, every time I see your face, it’s like, I just have. Warmth inside of me. And, um, I wanna thank you for everything you do for me and for the world and for all your clients. Um, you are a special person, you and your husband, Lee.

Thank you. I feel the same, you know, it’s mutual admiration club. Every time I see you, I just wanna snuggle you’re the. I hope you have an amazing rest of the day. I thank you for helping me with all the technology. . That was fun. I’m going to you’ll tell me when and I’m gonna stop the recording and okay.

And we will enjoy the rest of our day. All right. All right. Have amazing one. You too. Thank you so much for having me. Okay. Bye bye. And until next time, have an amazing rest of the. And remember. Yes, you can. Bye everybody. Thanks so much for listening for tips, updates, and expert advice. Be sure to visit your amazing divorce.com.

And remember my friends. Yes, you can have an amazing life after divorce. See you. Views expressed by the participants of this program are their own and do not represent the views of nor are they endorsed by YFA family law group or your divorce law center, their respective officers, directors, employees, agents, or representatives.

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