Ep. 171 – Adultery in Marriage

00;00;00;00 – 00;00;24;00
Jeff
Hello, everybody out there. Today we’re going to be talking about a very interesting subject. And it’s adultery during divorce after divorce and before divorce. So if you’re ready for episode 171, let’s get started.

00;00;56;26 – 00;01;01;24
Doreen
Well, that was an interesting intro. How do you have adultery after divorce?

00;01;01;26 – 00;01;08;23
Jeff
That’s a very, very good question. I think it’s more how to deal with it. Yeah. You know, once you’re divorced and you’re moving on with your life.

00;01;08;24 – 00;01;31;19
Doreen
Yeah, we kind of just hopefully you all heard the, the intro here because I listen to the intro and I’m like, okay, first of all, I don’t know how interesting unfaithfulness is, but, I guess it’s kind of interesting. There’s a lot of movies that have been made about it, and conversations and books and controversy and religious things and everything.

00;01;31;19 – 00;01;35;21
Jeff
I guess that explains the giggle during the, the intro anyhow.

00;01;35;21 – 00;01;37;08
Doreen
Well, first of all, how are you?

00;01;37;09 – 00;01;42;06
Jeff
I’m doing great. What about you? Good. I know you have a heavy heart about something in a family.

00;01;42;07 – 00;01;47;19
Doreen
My, youngest daughter, Samantha. She has flown the nest.

00;01;47;22 – 00;01;48;22
Jeff
Flown the nest from.

00;01;48;22 – 00;02;06;05
Doreen
Our beautiful South Florida area. She’s now living in Charleston. And, Yeah, we’re excited for her and her boyfriend, Carrie. And she’s probably even listening to this podcast because she does work for us doing marketing and edit.

00;02;06;05 – 00;02;08;14
Jeff
Probably edit this whole part about.

00;02;08;16 – 00;02;22;25
Doreen
She told me that sometimes she listens to our, life coaching and she, you know, she’s there doing because she does like social media. And she’ll take excerpts in this and that and, she gets oh, I get so interested in the subjects that, you know.

00;02;22;28 – 00;02;23;20
Jeff
She’s such she’s.

00;02;23;26 – 00;02;27;24
Doreen
I’m watching her. I’m listening, I should say. But now it’s like her mother.

00;02;27;24 – 00;02;42;00
Jeff
I mean, I knew as soon as she said, we want to look at Charleston someday as a place we want to live. And then all of a sudden they come back with a lease. I mean, she’s just like your mother. When you say you’re going to do something, you can consider it done. Yeah.

00;02;42;00 – 00;03;11;23
Doreen
I have to tell you. And if she’s listening, this is to her as well, that when she first mentioned it to me, to us, that she was, her and Kerry had visited, Charleston, and they really loved it because it offers, you know, the water and they’re very much into the beach and the water. And, you know, the coastal community and the charm of the, the southern charm and the houses that she was describing and everything, I’m like, yeah, okay.

00;03;11;23 – 00;03;19;17
Doreen
So one day, one day. And then they went up for another visit and they came back and they’re like, we found a place. And I’m like, wait a second. What?

00;03;19;17 – 00;03;23;19
Jeff
You got a job? Kerry got a job. We got a place so they’re ready to go.

00;03;23;19 – 00;03;32;17
Doreen
You know, it’s it’s so interesting. As you know, we were just at a funeral earlier today. And, shout out to Jimmy.

00;03;32;21 – 00;03;33;06
Jeff
Yes.

00;03;33;07 – 00;04;02;28
Doreen
You know, I’m sure he’s looking down at us and and, giving all kinds of smiles in his, fluorescent outfit. Private joke. But, you know, you go from. He was in his 80s, right? You go from having your children to raising them to, in your marriage, maybe getting divorced, and then your children, they go to college, maybe they don’t, but then they, you know, go and they live somewhere else.

00;04;02;28 – 00;04;18;03
Doreen
And it’s kind of like, wow, like, where did all this time go? But I’m very proud of her. I’m very proud of all of our kids. Yeah. You know, I think we’ve we’ve done something right. And big shout out to Sam too, right. Absolutely. Their dad, he’s amazing and.

00;04;18;04 – 00;04;18;28
Jeff
Takes a village.

00;04;18;28 – 00;04;22;18
Doreen
Takes a village, takes a village. We talk a lot about co-parenting. Okay.

00;04;22;20 – 00;04;23;21
Jeff
So we got a family.

00;04;23;22 – 00;04;27;03
Doreen
Guy likes to live right into, being unfaithful.

00;04;27;06 – 00;04;38;07
Jeff
Right. So families, we were here doing the podcast at our home. Of course. Yeah. These are our, our current family members right here. Yeah. Honor, coda and our son, Zen.

00;04;38;08 – 00;04;43;18
Doreen
But I don’t know if they can see him from the way that the angle is on, but we have two amazing dogs. Any.

00;04;43;24 – 00;04;44;17
Jeff
Sorry.

00;04;44;22 – 00;05;05;27
Doreen
Yeah. So I think we’re gonna just speak today. We’re already four minutes into it, but really about Jeff and I, and we have some differencing as coaches but also as a couple as being married when we talk about adultery. Right. And then there’s a legal side of it. And then we wanted to talk about the coaching aspect of it.

00;05;05;27 – 00;05;20;26
Doreen
So and I think we also wanted to look at this from the perspective of if you’re the person that your spouse cheated on you, or are you the cheater? From both perspectives as well. We want to dive in.

00;05;20;28 – 00;05;34;27
Jeff
Yeah. And I think from both perspectives, there’s also two different perspectives there, you know, and we’ll get into that a little bit later. But there’s a lot of perspectives we’re going to talk about because it’s all about your thoughts and the way you look and see things.

00;05;35;00 – 00;05;35;12
Doreen
Right.

00;05;35;12 – 00;05;38;16
Jeff
Yeah. So first let’s dive into the legal side of it.

00;05;38;19 – 00;05;44;28
Doreen
So first we’re going to dive into it. You have to follow the outline. You see what I put here. Look one two.

00;05;45;01 – 00;05;47;02
Jeff
Oh I didn’t put 123. Yeah.

00;05;47;02 – 00;05;58;16
Doreen
So the first one can you tell who’s very processed. And you like everything like a plus you know A and B and C and or one plus one equals two. Anyhow the first thing.

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Jeff
You tell who’s the man of the.

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Doreen
Yes.

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Jeff
Man. Right.

00;06;02;06 – 00;06;18;28
Doreen
Are differences. Yeah. So you know, the subject of adultery comes up or being unfaithful when you’re married. Not that not that it’s happening. You know, maybe you have a friend who was caught or you’re watching a program. You know, I think they have this thing called cheaters or something.

00;06;19;01 – 00;06;20;08
Jeff
Oh, yeah, that’s right, they do.

00;06;20;09 – 00;06;31;00
Doreen
Or you’re watching a movie or whatever it is, you know. So Jeff and I have had this conversation, and you have said to me that if I ever cheated on you, it’s over. Dun dun.

00;06;31;01 – 00;06;31;14
Jeff
Dun.

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Doreen
Dun absolutely dun. No matter what, where, how or when it’s done. Right? Right, right. And I’ve always been in the philosophy of, well, but wait but wait. And so we share where we have very different thoughts about this as married people, not as coaches, not as a lawyer. So my thought I’ll start has always been that.

00;07;01;02 – 00;07;28;09
Doreen
Yes, of course adultery and being unfaithful is horrible. And it is one of those things religiously and otherwise may be unforgivable right on many levels. And you take vows, and those vows mean things in that, you know, the intimacy involved with cheating and all all that. However, from my perspective, and again, this is not right or wrong.

00;07;28;09 – 00;07;50;28
Doreen
This is just my perspective. There’s usually in a relationship, something more going on. Usually than the actual act of the cheating. Right? The, the being unfaithful. So what I mean by that is that for us, because I’m talking about us, right? This is not, by the way, a green light for you.

00;07;51;00 – 00;07;52;22
Jeff
No, no. You know, actually.

00;07;52;26 – 00;07;53;03
Doreen
Let me.

00;07;53;03 – 00;07;54;13
Jeff
Finish. I was going to say something.

00;07;54;14 – 00;08;01;17
Doreen
This is not a green light for you to go out and do anything. I just want to. Cat. Agreed? Agreed. Okay, so we have a legal bind.

00;08;01;17 – 00;08;02;22
Jeff
All of our witnesses out there.

00;08;02;22 – 00;08;32;07
Doreen
Okay, great. Great. Is that if you cheated on me, well, I would be devastated. Hurt, and many other emotions, many of which I probably cannot say right now on this podcast. You know, I. And I might throw you out of the house, you know, from that anger that, that surge or whatever that looks like at the moment, that I wouldn’t jump right to, I want a divorce.

00;08;32;09 – 00;08;33;00
Jeff
Right.

00;08;33;02 – 00;09;05;22
Doreen
Because from my perspective, again, this is just me. I would be hurt and angry for sure. Probably throw you out. Okay. But I would also be looking at, well, what happened, right? Why did this happen? Now, I know that there are certain people in this world. I would say man, but I don’t want to be sexist. Okay? But anyhow, I will say men and mostly, but maybe your.

00;09;05;23 – 00;09;06;27
Jeff
Podcast is what you want.

00;09;06;28 – 00;09;11;16
Doreen
Okay, now who knows that you know, are what they call dogs. Yeah, right.

00;09;11;17 – 00;09;12;02
Jeff
Of course.

00;09;12;03 – 00;09;41;19
Doreen
It’s all about another notch and all of that. But for most of us that are involved in serious relationships, such as marriage, right, we make commitments and we intend to be faithful, right? I think that that that people generally share that perspective. So taking the dog out of it, I just think that there’s probably some blame or thoughts or responsibility from my side as well.

00;09;41;21 – 00;09;52;12
Doreen
Right? Depends. And the circumstances depends on many factors. So that would be my perspective. Your perspective.

00;09;52;15 – 00;10;05;04
Jeff
Well, let me speak about my perspective. Right. Because when I think we had this conversation, it was probably 14 years ago, maybe somewhere around there.

00;10;05;06 – 00;10;06;24
Doreen
Oh, then we just got married.

00;10;06;25 – 00;10;36;04
Jeff
We just got married. Or it was soon after. I have become a certified coach and have changed the way I perceive things. And kind of the way you describe your thoughts of it was more slowing down. I have an open mind. Look at the two perspectives and really dive in and see the cause of the pain, the cause of the cheating.

00;10;36;07 – 00;10;46;00
Jeff
Okay, so how did it really happen? So now versus versus where I was coming from is she cheated on me? Not my fault. You know we’re done.

00;10;46;05 – 00;10;46;15
Doreen
Right.

00;10;46;15 – 00;10;55;02
Jeff
So I think that when you listen to your perspective, don’t let this go to your head or anything, but I think you’re right. I think you have to.

00;10;55;02 – 00;10;56;16
Doreen
Wait, wait, wait. Could you just repeat that?

00;10;56;16 – 00;11;18;14
Jeff
Yes. I think you were right. Just Doreen was correct. And she usually is. No. I think you know the old story. There’s three sides to every story. You know, his side, her side and the truth. Right? So I think you really do need to slow down, but you don’t need to do anything. But I think you should.

00;11;18;18 – 00;11;19;26
Doreen
I want you to talk about you.

00;11;19;29 – 00;11;23;19
Jeff
I should. Well, definitely. I am talking about my side right now.

00;11;23;20 – 00;11;25;17
Doreen
You would. You would slow down.

00;11;25;17 – 00;11;26;01
Jeff
So I.

00;11;26;01 – 00;11;27;07
Doreen
Would so put. You know, this.

00;11;27;07 – 00;11;29;13
Jeff
Doesn’t give you a hall pass for green. Okay.

00;11;29;13 – 00;11;31;14
Doreen
Green I agree as well.

00;11;31;14 – 00;11;32;15
Jeff
So what I’m saying.

00;11;32;15 – 00;11;40;04
Doreen
Is so if I, if something happened and I cheated right now, you would have this perspective.

00;11;40;06 – 00;11;40;26
Jeff
I think I would.

00;11;40;27 – 00;11;57;09
Doreen
Because it used to be not that I ever would, because to me, I want to talk about that a little bit later in the podcast. But to me, I don’t want to get to a point in a marriage where I would be cheating. And that’s something that I want to talk about as well. But right, if if I did.

00;11;57;11 – 00;12;02;08
Jeff
I would probably now look at myself first.

00;12;02;10 – 00;12;03;17
Doreen
Well, first you would be angry.

00;12;03;17 – 00;12;14;07
Jeff
Well, first there’s the anger, right? And there’s the hurt, the resentment, you know, go let me go get my gun and all that stuff. But no, but.

00;12;14;10 – 00;12;17;11
Doreen
Do you say that tongue in cheek, tongue in cheek now?

00;12;17;12 – 00;12;37;23
Jeff
Well, you know, that’s part of the anger side of it. And when you settle down, you slow down and take a deep breath and you start to analyze what really happened. It’s not going to do it because you’re not going to cheat on me because I was Prince Charming and I did nothing wrong. And you still love me.

00;12;37;25 – 00;12;43;24
Jeff
Okay, I think there’s going to be probably evidence of something that both of us did.

00;12;43;26 – 00;13;17;15
Doreen
Yeah. And I think that in our marriage we have this understanding that we wouldn’t cheat. We wouldn’t be unfaithful. And that, to me, isn’t just the sexual act that to me is being involved or interested in somebody else. Okay. So emotional cheating we’ve had, we’ve had sorry we have our dog here. But we’ve had that conversation that we would step away from the relationship first, be separated and respect the other person before we wandered off.

00;13;17;16 – 00;13;24;21
Doreen
Right, right. Whether it was emotionally being interested in somebody or having, you know, sex with someone, right?

00;13;24;22 – 00;13;26;29
Jeff
Right. I mean, that’s I think that’s a very important.

00;13;26;29 – 00;13;51;03
Doreen
But I think a lot of people that are unhappy maybe, maybe I shouldn’t say a lot. I think that, and this is all based from, again, my, my as a divorce attorney for 30 years. So what I’ve heard what I’ve seen, what I’ve learned in my profession, right, is that people that are unhappy in marriages, sometimes they test the waters outside the marriage first.

00;13;51;06 – 00;14;10;13
Doreen
Well, I’m not so sure. I’m kind of unhappy over here. Things aren’t going well. He’s this. He’s that. He’s not doing all this and so let me just put myself out there a little bit and see what’s going on out there. If I like what’s going on out there, I might be more apt to go ahead and move forward in a direction, right?

00;14;10;20 – 00;14;11;01
Jeff
Right.

00;14;11;07 – 00;14;32;27
Doreen
Which is not where I would want to be. You know, I’m not going to judge somebody else, but I, I think that being truthful to yourself, and if you are looking somewhere else outside the marriage, you know, being honest with what that looks like. Yeah, right. With your spouse. So anyhow.

00;14;33;00 – 00;14;58;14
Jeff
You know, but it’s all I, I hope this makes sense to our audience because this is something that it’s not rocket science. I mean, when you when you are not, let’s say you’re not getting the attention at home that you want and you go out and somebody is giving the attention that you feel that you want. You want to make sure that you’re understanding, that you’re playing with fire, and you have to understand the ramifications.

00;14;58;17 – 00;15;07;28
Doreen
Well. And I don’t know, that’s kind of jumping in the pool from my perspective. Well, first of all, if someone is not I forgot what you just said. I wish I.

00;15;07;28 – 00;15;09;19
Jeff
Could understanding the ramifications.

00;15;09;21 – 00;15;12;06
Doreen
Going back. You said you’re not happy at home.

00;15;12;06 – 00;15;13;23
Jeff
You’re not getting what you need at home.

00;15;13;23 – 00;15;34;06
Doreen
Well, first of all, let’s talk a little cocky for a minute. You’re not getting what you need at home, right? Well, is someone else going to give you what you need? Could like we could know. We could get into the whole thing about the manual. Other people cannot make you happy. They might do things that you really love and appreciate that make you happy, right?

00;15;34;09 – 00;15;53;26
Doreen
But happiness, truly, there’s a lot of people, especially in marriages. I think that live through this. He’s going to make me happy. And when I’m with him and or when I’m with her, where the happiness is something that’s self-made, that’s that’s a very big, deep subject in coaching. But that’s really important.

00;15;53;28 – 00;16;05;24
Jeff
I think I went into the movies in the television weeds or something, because when I’m talking about, oh, you’re at work and she’s giving you all these compliments, but you’re not getting any compliments at home, right? That kind of stuff.

00;16;05;26 – 00;16;06;05
Doreen
Right?

00;16;06;07 – 00;16;26;07
Jeff
You know, you know, those kind of needs of you’re getting, you know, your, people are showing interest in you and your spouse is not showing interest in right. And that’s really not just I’m not talking about just sex either. No, but understanding that you’re you’re kind of playing with fire and understanding the ramifications.

00;16;26;09 – 00;16;28;07
Doreen
Of for sure, like, think it through.

00;16;28;07 – 00;16;29;04
Jeff
Yeah. Think it through.

00;16;29;05 – 00;16;29;24
Doreen
Think it through.

00;16;29;24 – 00;16;30;22
Jeff
That’s what I’m talking about.

00;16;30;22 – 00;16;39;23
Doreen
Yeah for sure. Think it through. You know both sides. So so so we now share similar thoughts about agree.

00;16;39;26 – 00;16;42;09
Jeff
I definitely think we’re more similar now.

00;16;42;11 – 00;16;45;28
Doreen
That I, I did not know that before we sat here right now.

00;16;46;01 – 00;17;08;22
Jeff
Okay. Well I I’ve been thinking about it not about cheating, but when we when we wrote this episode, you know, when you when and you know, let’s say our audience out there, when you meet with us, you meet with a coach, right? They not only show you different perspectives that you could look at and you could have the different thoughts about.

00;17;08;22 – 00;17;09;03
Doreen
Right.

00;17;09;09 – 00;17;35;01
Jeff
But they’re diving into your thoughts. These are your thoughts, not we can’t make you feel or think or do something that we want you to do. It’s got to be coming from you. So when I’m reading this and I’m looking at this, if I didn’t believe this, I’d almost be a hypocrite and say that. Yeah. The other person could have some fault in it and push that person into cheating.

00;17;35;01 – 00;17;35;27
Doreen
Now, wait.

00;17;36;03 – 00;17;37;20
Jeff
Yes, true. However.

00;17;37;22 – 00;17;52;14
Doreen
Well, you you damn. I don’t know about pushing him. That’s a very strong. You know, I he made me do it. He didn’t give me any love for the last month. And he was cold as ice and a piece of. You know what?

00;17;52;16 – 00;18;11;15
Jeff
I went into the TV weeds again. I said, no, we cannot push you in any. But that was my point anyway. We can’t have you do anything that we want you to do. You have to do it for yourself. All we do is, open up your eyes to the way you’re thinking right? Right. So let’s look into the legal side.

00;18;11;19 – 00;18;17;01
Jeff
Yeah, of adultery. Because a lot of people think that. Oh, my spouse cheated on me. I get everything.

00;18;17;06 – 00;18;26;15
Doreen
I don’t know. I don’t know how many people really, truly believe that anymore. Florida is a no fault state, which means that you don’t need a used to be back in the days to.

00;18;26;15 – 00;18;28;11
Jeff
Say, well, maybe that’s why people need to know now.

00;18;28;12 – 00;18;31;04
Doreen
Well, it’s changed many, many moons ago.

00;18;31;04 – 00;18;32;14
Jeff
And people don’t know that though.

00;18;32;15 – 00;18;59;19
Doreen
Okay. So you used to be legally in many states, even in Florida, including Florida, but I’m talking many moons ago, right, that you had to have cause for for a divorce, adultery, neglect, abuse, abuse, something like this. Right. And there were certain causes and a lot of it, if you go into the history of it stems from religion, right.

00;18;59;21 – 00;19;20;28
Doreen
That back in the day helped to create certain laws, etc., etc. and, and so now in Florida and many states throughout, the United States, it’s a no fault state, which means you don’t need a reason. You just have to say the marriage is irretrievably broken. I don’t want to be married to anybody, to anybody, to this guy, any any more or anybody in the future.

00;19;20;28 – 00;19;43;26
Doreen
Just kidding. And so I want a divorce, right? So does adultery really play into it? The answer is no in that respect. But maybe with regard to other things, mostly not. But if that person did that, he if he he I’m just going to use the he pronoun. So please forgive me. I mean all pronouns.

00;19;43;29 – 00;19;45;27
Jeff
That you know, they spouse, you know.

00;19;45;29 – 00;20;08;25
Doreen
Yeah. That if he cheated on you and he spent money on this person, right? Took marital dollars from income or from savings or on a credit card that he paid off with marital money and took her out to restaurants and on a vacation and bought her flowers and jewelry. And they went to hotel rooms and all the things in Florida, at least.

00;20;08;25 – 00;20;22;13
Doreen
And I think throughout many of the states, that’s called a dissipation. Oh, that’s a legal word. And what that means is that if you can prove it, that he spent all the money like this, then every on every dollar you get $0.50.

00;20;22;13 – 00;20;24;24
Jeff
Back in Florida, I think the key word is prove it.

00;20;25;01 – 00;20;44;22
Doreen
Proving it’s very hard. And I don’t want to get too much down the weeds on that. But talk to your lawyer about it, because not only do you have to get all of, let’s say, the credit card statements, find all the charges of all the places so that you didn’t go. So usually what I would do is I would send I would give them to my spouse, to my spouse, to my client.

00;20;44;24 – 00;21;05;27
Doreen
Right. And I would say, here’s the statements we got from your husband. And, you know, through discovery, which is a request to produce and all that and tell me what you don’t recognize. And then they give it to me. And then let’s say there’s a restaurant and it’s for $250. Right. Well now I got to do a subpoena over to the restaurant and ask them for all of the receipts.

00;21;06;00 – 00;21;30;16
Doreen
I can ask the husband for the receipts in Florida takes about 30 days, but I can go straight to the restaurant as well. Now I got the receipt and I after a process and probably, you know, hundreds of dollars, if not thousands that you’ve spent. Now, I’ve got to get those those receipts. And now look at that day and there was a steak and there was a piece of, there was a fish entree, and there was a martini, and there was a glass of wine and there was a dessert.

00;21;30;19 – 00;21;34;29
Doreen
Okay. Now I can show probably to the court that two people dined, right?

00;21;35;02 – 00;21;37;25
Jeff
Yeah. It was me and my my client.

00;21;37;27 – 00;21;49;14
Doreen
Exactly. Then you got to prove that it was actually someone else, right? Right. And not a client. Yes. Not a not a networking event or something like this. So it’s very challenging.

00;21;49;16 – 00;21;59;18
Jeff
So in the legal world, somebody comes to you that has been cheated on. What is your best advice?

00;21;59;21 – 00;22;01;04
Doreen
How much did you spend on her?

00;22;01;06 – 00;22;03;05
Jeff
That’s what I mean. If you if you don’t.

00;22;03;12 – 00;22;06;21
Doreen
That’s the first question I ask. So you’re the client. How much did you spend on her?

00;22;06;22 – 00;22;07;20
Jeff
I have no idea.

00;22;07;20 – 00;22;11;29
Doreen
Well, what do you think? Best case scenario, you know him? How much do you think he spent?

00;22;12;01 – 00;22;15;05
Jeff
Well, maybe 50,000.

00;22;15;06 – 00;22;22;00
Doreen
50,000. That’s a lot of money to spend. Most clients wouldn’t say that. Most. Most clients might say like ten.

00;22;22;03 – 00;22;26;26
Jeff
Okay, well, I don’t I have no idea because I would never cheat. So I’m just guessing.

00;22;27;00 – 00;22;45;06
Doreen
Well, you know, if somebody is making, let’s say 100,000, 150, 200,000, let’s say they spent five grand on this person. So the person tells me five grand. Then I go, okay, now, now that’s $2,500 in your pocket. If I can show the court and I can prove it, I can only go back two years. So that’s going to limit it.

00;22;45;10 – 00;23;04;19
Doreen
Okay. And it’s $2,500 that we’re fighting for okay. Now you’re going to look at all the statements. How is that going to feel I got to get all this stuff that’s going to cost you money. Right? I got to prove it. And you’re living through all this for $2,500? Potentially on my best day in court. Is it worth it?

00;23;04;21 – 00;23;13;11
Jeff
Now, you do the math, you know. Why is that? Times the hourly rate of the attorney. It’s probably a lot more than the $2,500.

00;23;13;11 – 00;23;39;05
Doreen
Right. And. Well, and not to mention the emotional time effort involved and the hurt and pain of seeing all that. Now, I’ve had cases where there was point blank a very expensive item. American Express came in. There was a $200,000 purchase at Cartier. Okay, okay. Now that one you do. Yeah. Because come on, we all want to put 100 grand back into our pocket.

00;23;39;05 – 00;24;07;17
Doreen
And it’s probably an easy proof. Right? Right. But the rest of it. No. So it’s really hard sometimes with clients because they’re very emotional of course, about the adultery. Sure. They feel that they’ve been wronged, but legally it can. You know, it may not have a lot of bearing on things. The only other area legally that that in Florida, not only but I’m going to say one of the other areas is, with regard to children, if somebody is cheating, we want to know who this person is.

00;24;07;17 – 00;24;30;11
Doreen
Is this somebody they’re involved in? What is their character? Because they’re going to be with the children. But even then, you know, courts are, at least in Florida, pretty a liberal as to and I don’t mean it like in a political way. I mean, they’re open minded to, you know, and basically that someone can decide who they want to be with.

00;24;30;11 – 00;24;37;27
Doreen
And if they seem to be a decent person, a good person, they’re they’re not going to restrict access. You know, communication. And does that make sense?

00;24;37;29 – 00;24;54;28
Jeff
Yeah, I know it makes sense because there was what we like. Let’s go back to what we said before about analyzing why your spouse cheated that open mindedness can really come in handy knowing that they had something to do with it. I had something to do with it.

00;24;55;00 – 00;24;56;22
Doreen
How does that have to do with the legal?

00;24;56;24 – 00;25;16;23
Jeff
Well, because you’re saying that be open minded and you were going out in the weeds and I just said that. You said that. That makes sense. And I said, it does make sense because you have to be open minded in this whole situation, this whole you don’t have to be. But I think it it behooves you to be open minded when you’re looking at the.

00;25;16;23 – 00;25;17;25
Doreen
Legal part of it.

00;25;17;26 – 00;25;21;23
Jeff
The legal part of it. It sounds like there’s really not much you could do about it.

00;25;21;23 – 00;25;23;05
Doreen
Well, it depends.

00;25;23;06 – 00;25;23;26
Jeff
If they want what.

00;25;23;26 – 00;25;47;02
Doreen
I’m what I’m saying. We were we were talking legal. So I think we went down the weeds and I want to come back to the legal, which is it depends. It depends on how much time and effort. But it’s about the dollars spent generally. Right. Okay. It’s not about he did me wrong and so pay me more. It’s about the money that was spent on someone that’s marital money.

00;25;47;05 – 00;25;50;19
Doreen
That’s half that person’s that you spent on someone else.

00;25;50;21 – 00;25;55;23
Jeff
Makes sense because they’re you’re so busy, they’re spending your money on the other person.

00;25;55;26 – 00;25;57;29
Doreen
Right. So enough of the legal okay.

00;25;57;29 – 00;25;58;21
Jeff
Enough of the legal.

00;25;58;22 – 00;25;59;23
Doreen
Coaching was next.

00;25;59;23 – 00;26;00;16
Jeff
Teaching.

00;26;00;16 – 00;26;01;12
Doreen
Coaching.

00;26;01;14 – 00;26;21;29
Jeff
I think one important thing is we have to look at the have to you. I know I say that you we have to we don’t have to. But I do think it it’s a great idea to understand there’s two sides to the story and when you’re going to make a decision to stay together or to not stay together, you want to kind of look at things.

00;26;22;02 – 00;26;32;07
Jeff
In other words, would you marry this person again or what is it look like in a couple of days? What does it look like in a few months? What is it like in a few years? The ramifications with the choice.

00;26;32;07 – 00;26;34;02
Doreen
Wow, you’re going really fast.

00;26;34;09 – 00;26;35;05
Jeff
Am I going fast?

00;26;35;05 – 00;26;35;17
Doreen
Yeah.

00;26;35;19 – 00;26;37;07
Jeff
Okay, I’m going to slow down.

00;26;37;09 – 00;26;40;06
Doreen
Yeah. I think we need to first in coaching. Slow down.

00;26;40;09 – 00;26;40;29
Jeff
Take a breath.

00;26;41;00 – 00;26;59;27
Doreen
Right. No, seriously. You just got news that your spouse cheated. Or maybe you’re the cheater and you’re having a lot of guilt about that. Okay, okay. The question the first thing we were saying is to really, from a coaching standpoint, slow down your thoughts because your immediate thought might be to kick them the hell out of the house.

00;27;00;02 – 00;27;28;08
Doreen
And that might be okay. You know, maybe you need space. You of course, you probably need space, right? But slow down. Right? Should this be the end of my marriage? Should this be the end of the relationship? Is this partially my fault? Do I really want to be with this person anyhow? Was I pushing him away so that I had a reason for him to go out and do things that I could use?

00;27;28;11 – 00;27;31;25
Doreen
Because I really don’t want to be in this marriage anymore, right?

00;27;31;26 – 00;27;34;04
Jeff
Or do I want to live without him or her?

00;27;34;07 – 00;28;12;14
Doreen
And then you can go to, you know, if you love, you really dig deep on, do I? Why did this happen? And do I want to still be with this person irrespective of the adultery? Did I have something to do or contribute towards this? How can we work it out? And then like you were going to say, or I think you mentioned earlier, looking it through after that first step of slowing down, after the anger and all that, analyzing all the different parts of it, you take the time to look forward, forward thinking.

00;28;12;19 – 00;28;13;28
Doreen
You want to talk about that.

00;28;13;28 – 00;28;30;23
Jeff
Look at your future being future minded. You’re looking at the pros and cons in a short period of time, in a median period of time, let’s say in a few months. And you’re looking at the long term period of time, you know, what is your life going to look like.

00;28;30;23 – 00;28;32;09
Doreen
With or without the this.

00;28;32;11 – 00;28;48;16
Jeff
Person? Now, either way, of course, I’m thinking of how to say this. We would hope that there would always be that positive side of things. You know, life can always be 5050.

00;28;48;17 – 00;28;51;04
Doreen
You’re not going to feel it now when you feel feeling way.

00;28;51;06 – 00;28;56;26
Jeff
But if you’re saying in the future, oh my gosh, my life is going to be terrible without him, probably won’t be right.

00;28;56;26 – 00;29;16;10
Doreen
So I think what you’re saying is, and also we have to be aware from a coaching perspective that when you do the future thinking, future minded, what is my if if I go forward with the divorce, what does it look like in, you know, five days, five months, five years? Or if I stay with him and try to work this out, what does it look like?

00;29;16;10 – 00;29;23;05
Doreen
Five, five, five but also, what was I going to say?

00;29;23;07 – 00;29;34;29
Jeff
Well, first thing that comes to my mind, if if you are going to have this, do this exercise, if you do, stay with him. What or her? What’s the plan?

00;29;35;06 – 00;29;54;08
Doreen
Well, right. What’s the plan? But my thought was that be aware of your primitive brain when you’re going through this. That’s where I was going with this. So probably this conversation, this podcast has been very convoluted and I apologize for that. Just give us a call.

00;29;54;08 – 00;29;55;01
Jeff
Yeah. Give us a call.

00;29;55;01 – 00;30;00;12
Doreen
It was it and we’ll explain it. You just have a coaching session, you know, we’ll happily, you know, welcome. Any phone.

00;30;00;12 – 00;30;02;15
Jeff
Calls? Well, it’s a heated subject.

00;30;02;15 – 00;30;07;15
Doreen
But what I was going to say nothing with that is just us being in the weeds today all over.

00;30;07;22 – 00;30;08;22
Jeff
We’re in a crazy mood.

00;30;08;25 – 00;30;36;00
Doreen
Is that the coaching mindset is also about being aware that you have a primitive brain and you have a prefrontal, right? So your primitive brain will tell you many times to stay in a situation because even though the situation’s bad, you know what it is and you don’t know what the future is, and it’s going to tell you all the reasons why the future is worse than the bad situation you’re in.

00;30;36;02 – 00;30;57;01
Doreen
Think about this. I’m going to say it again. Your primitive brain will tell you that it wants you to stay where you are in a bad situation. We just happen to be talking about being unfaithful today. It could be about anything, okay? Because it knows what today is, even though it’s bad and the thought of the primitive brain is.

00;30;57;08 – 00;31;16;24
Doreen
And think of all the bad things that can happen if the future. If I left him, if I did this, I the kids will be without two parents. I won’t have any money. I will never find love again. Who will want me? I’m the sage. All the things that your primitive brain talking. And then you can have your prefrontal.

00;31;16;27 – 00;31;41;06
Doreen
The. This is the brain thinking brain, the reasonable brain, a reasoning brain that can really sit down and think and say, let me think about this from the perspective of my fault, my spouse’s fault. What led up to this and looking at it like you said, future minded, right? Like, what does it really look like? And is this somebody I really want to put the effort in to try to save the marriage?

00;31;41;06 – 00;31;54;13
Jeff
I may have a different example. A primitive brain. How about it’s is over. It’s done. She cheated on me. Yeah. It’s just never going to work out. It’s her fault. That’s primitive brain.

00;31;54;15 – 00;32;07;09
Doreen
That’s primitive brain. It’s protecting you. So it’s telling you, you know, to get it. It’s doing the opposite. You’re right. It’s telling you to leave because it’s so bad and I’m so hurt. I must just get out. It’s flight of. What is it?

00;32;07;11 – 00;32;09;18
Jeff
Flight or fright?

00;32;09;21 – 00;32;12;04
Doreen
Fright? Yeah, I’m like that. Yeah. Anyhow.

00;32;12;06 – 00;32;37;20
Jeff
Tongue twister. But but it’s the same thing. But now that we see things similarly, because we’re using more of our primitive, our, our prefrontal cortex. Yeah, you start to analyze. That’s the part of your brain that analyze is that sets goals that, you know, listens to the ramifications. You start to to think a little clearly, more clearly at least.

00;32;37;21 – 00;32;40;13
Jeff
Yeah, of, of your future.

00;32;40;16 – 00;33;19;26
Doreen
You know, what would be a good podcast to do? Also, I know we’re running short on time today, and I don’t want to go down the weeds, but about if you choose to stay together, like work on something like infidelity, you know, to to reconcile or to save the marriage. I think there’s some amazing coaching tools on that because of, you know, realizing, for example, that if you are trying to work on your marriage, that, you know, these therapists, with all due respect, that go in and say, hey, tell me all the things that that you want him to do, and they make all the notes and then tell me all the things,

00;33;19;26 – 00;33;44;21
Doreen
sir, that you want her to do. And they make all the notes and like exchange notes and like, let’s go there. That just doesn’t really work. Right. So that could be a whole other episode about if you are trying to save your marriage. Really? What that looks like, like realizing that this person is not is going to be this person and trying to make somebody they’re not who they’re not going to be is really not fair to you or them.

00;33;44;23 – 00;33;47;01
Doreen
But that’s for another. I didn’t want to get into that.

00;33;47;02 – 00;34;01;10
Jeff
I thought what I thought you were going to say was boundaries. If you’re going to, if you’re going to make if you’re going to really work hard to make the marriage last, I think the there there has to be understanding of boundaries. And that is a different

00;34;01;13 – 00;34;27;01
Doreen
Yeah, that’s another, another episode. Let’s see. The other thing I wanted to mention was that if your spouse cheated on you, or if you’re the cheating person, because I think a lot of people, you know, treat themselves badly, right? They have a lot of guilt. Okay. Is are you a bad person who did a bad thing or is he or she a bad person that did a bad thing.

00;34;27;03 – 00;34;50;21
Doreen
Or is are you a good person that just did a bad thing, or is he or she a good person that did a bad thing? Like there is a difference there, right? We’re not perfect. None of us are perfect. Yeah, right. There is no such thing. We all have faults. We all make mistakes. We all have failures. We all, you know, it is that we are human.

00;34;50;23 – 00;34;59;23
Doreen
So I think that that’s our perspective. I just wanted to throw out there that we we should acknowledge as you’re thinking about.

00;35;00;02 – 00;35;12;23
Jeff
It sounds like a great place to start your thought work, right? The good person, bad thing or bad person? Bad thing. Right. It’s a good way to start your thought patterns right from there.

00;35;12;26 – 00;35;33;27
Doreen
And I want to believe that most people are good. I know that’s probably hard to hear in today’s world, but I still want to live from that place. You know, I always say that somebody is good until they prove me wrong, right? You know, like, I always think everybody that I meet in life has a clean slate and, you know, like, I don’t prejudge.

00;35;33;27 – 00;36;00;04
Doreen
I don’t want to think about. And then you just live your life and your relationship with them, and you see what happens. And hopefully you come from a place of being very open and loving and embracing of that person in the relationship. Right. Because we have so many situations where people get hurt along the way and they close off the ability to love, know the ability to embrace, the ability to forgive, right?

00;36;00;04 – 00;36;18;27
Doreen
Forgiveness is is, you know, something that is very challenging. And so as we talk about this subject of being unfaithful, I think that’s another subject that probably we could do a whole other podcast episode on. It’s it’s hard to forgive when you’ve been hurt so bad.

00;36;19;00 – 00;36;26;01
Jeff
Yeah, I think I think we could do the episode on forgiveness and vengeance. You know, the way you look at both of those.

00;36;26;04 – 00;36;32;16
Doreen
Yeah, because vengeance is another thing. Absolutely. Let me get even because they hurt me. You know what else, my dear?

00;36;32;16 – 00;36;55;14
Jeff
Well, that’s it, that’s it. Yeah. Well, you know, we did mention earlier about if we’re confusing you out there and you said, what in the world were they talking about? Right. Give us a call. Look us up on the on the website at la-coaching.com. [email protected]. Shoot me an email and you get a free consultation. You have nothing to lose.

00;36;55;14 – 00;36;56;18
Jeff
I’d love to talk to you about it.

00;36;56;18 – 00;37;00;08
Doreen
Yeah why not. You know, but the other thing is what about your webinar?

00;37;00;08 – 00;37;03;10
Jeff
Well, I have a webinar January 14th.

00;37;03;11 – 00;37;06;13
Doreen
Wait wait wait, do you definitely want to say the date?

00;37;06;13 – 00;37;07;18
Jeff
Yeah, it’s the date.

00;37;07;19 – 00;37;08;26
Doreen
Okay.

00;37;08;26 – 00;37;10;21
Jeff
Come hell or high water, it’s the date.

00;37;10;21 – 00;37;12;12
Doreen
Wait a second. So what’s it called?

00;37;12;12 – 00;37;14;23
Jeff
It’s called congratulations. It’s a divorce.

00;37;15;01 – 00;37;16;18
Doreen
You mean like it’s a boy or a girl?

00;37;16;18 – 00;37;24;03
Jeff
It’s a boy or a girl. So congratulations. It’s a divorce. And it’s basically a different way of looking at divorce.

00;37;24;04 – 00;37;24;22
Doreen
Okay?

00;37;24;24 – 00;37;38;01
Jeff
And I’m pretty excited about it. To to have people say it’s all about your thoughts and how you look at it instead of saying, oh, I’m so sorry you’re going through that right now. Right? And then somebody said, oh, congratulations.

00;37;38;04 – 00;37;57;24
Doreen
I think that it’s an interesting subject, and I hope that you have a lot of people that come in just because it is so interesting as well. You know, this podcast used to be called Your Amazing Divorce. And before you started to join me on them. Right. And then we changed the name, but people would be like, why did you call it your amazing divorce?

00;37;57;24 – 00;38;18;12
Doreen
And I would be like, because eventually my clients would all get to a place where it would be a great place after divorce. It took them different periods of time to get there, but 99% of the people I knew found greatness and happiness and amazingness after the divorce. So I said, it’s.

00;38;18;12 – 00;38;34;06
Jeff
Probably only because you haven’t heard from that 1% yet. You’re probably it’s probably 100% because you know, in life you only have one life to live, and people eventually will move on and find happiness. It’s it’s it’s not a, secret.

00;38;34;08 – 00;38;39;21
Doreen
No. And it’s also, you know, good and bad. So you’ll find happiness. And then, you know.

00;38;39;23 – 00;38;41;24
Jeff
I have a lot to talk about on this webinar.

00;38;41;28 – 00;38;48;22
Doreen
Okay. Well, we want to hear more. So if they have, they want to get more information just to reach you at the same.

00;38;48;26 – 00;38;49;22
Jeff
You can email.

00;38;49;25 – 00;38;52;24
Doreen
Perfect. All right everybody have an amazing week.

00;38;52;24 – 00;38;54;00
Jeff
And I’ll see you soon.

00;38;54;00 – 00;38;54;28
Doreen
We’ll see you in a few.

00;38;54;28 – 00;39;04;12
Jeff
Bye bye. You.